Mar 282012

M1MELJ Version 1.1

  1. M1MFOE: Title: OCAndroid Developers[+Users] Meetups hour range: expand from 7:00pm-10:00pm to say 6:00pm-10:00pm
  2.  M1MFOY: Status: PROPOSED

  3. M1MVDC: What (hour range) expansion?

    1. M1MVDX:  Going after 10:00pm is a NO:
      1. M1MVFR: simply not possible at our present & very-good venue as they close promptly then.
      2. M1MVG1: 10:00pm starts to be late for ~15% of attendees.
    2. M1MVKS: Staring at 6:30pm
      1. M1MVLK: My original idea when proposing this, but now I don’t even think this is enough
    3. M1MW4A: Starting at 6:00pm
      1. M1MVM4: I now think this is what it will take, now especially with
        1. M1MYAC: the trouble I just had trying to get even an enthusiastic incoming leader, who had already freely spent seemingly hours to put tech slides & talk for us together, to now just spend a few mins this 1 time on admin to bootstrap his leadership role –more than other groups, computer techs seem to utterly hate doing anything but tech between meetings.
        2. M1MYAJ: In comparison to OCAndroid’s original meetings
  4. M1KE6R: Pros thru cons, in rough order:

    1. M1KE7T: It seems to me our (1st=last) 3 meetings at this new venue, with our new agenda, are not giving us enough time, for these reasons, roughly from most to least:
      1. M1KELH: None of our (1st=last) 3 meetings at this new menu have had more than 20min left over for hacking & training, which is clearly not enough.  One needs at least a solid hour to get any real work done here.
      2. M1KE9T: We’re more following the agenda, and doing more on it (have added to it considerably), which is going well but then naturally taking more time:
        1. M1KEKJ: We’re now (rightfully) handling needed group admin during the meetings,
          1.  M1MPQS: including:
            1. M1MRVQ: At the end of the meeting, getting attendees to RSVP for the next ones and ideally to write a review for this one.
            2. M1MRWT: For attendees who promised to give a presentation at upcoming meetings, to post that presentation now so in time to advertise it & get attendees.
              1. M1MSFV: How this is done? See my Greet on Raul’s mbr profile on “Mar 28, 2012 5:11 PM”
          2. M1MS0D: These tasks are easy & only take an attendee 5 to 10 min, and a leader can typically get an attendee do do them during the meeting; BUT getting him/her to do it after/between the meetings is consistently a nightmare:
            1. M1MS4B: taking me easily 1hr in my time scheduling & reminding the attendee to do it,
            2. M1MS4P: and a needlessly frustrating experience for the attendee, too, I guess because they don’t understand that it’s easy and are upset about doing something in between meetings and uncomfortable doing it via remote instruction (as via over the phone), plus most techies seem to abhor doing admin & leadership.
            3. M1MS6H: And instead of getting it done instantly, it gets delayed days or right before the next meeting (not enough time to adverise the presentation) or just never gets done, and doing it takes the attendee ~2x as long and me (the overseeing leader) ~5x as long.
            4. M1MWD2:  It’s hard enough to get volunteers for community groups to do anything they don’t want to do especially between meetings, even if it very much needs to be done, but it seems extremely hard (nearly impossible) to get computer techs (at least what I’ve seen in OCAndroid & SoCalAndroid) to do non-tech (notably leadership & admin), especially between meetings –they want & ask & need it to be done, but virtually refuse to do it (even to the point of then contradictory convincing themselves now it isn’t necessary).
              1. M1MVN4: Just the latest seemingly example: just now I just had trouble with this even enthusiastic incoming leader Stuart: he apparently freely spend hours (beyond the call of duty) putting together professional tech slides & talk to show to us, and doing an awesome talk;  but doing a few minutes of leadership & admin between meetings, even just to boot-strap his own leadership duties?  Well the reality is I seemingly haven’t  been able to get his attention more than ~10min, even just to learn what to do –and I know this reaction is not untypical.
                1. M1MWRV: Yes, the member who had just freely spent on his own a few hours on his own time coming up with an impressive set of slides for us on PhoneGap –working well beyond the call of duty. Then did  an awesome presentation and then volunteered to be a leader.
                2. M1MWTH: But when it came ANY admin duties, even just learning what there was to do,
                  1. M1MWTW: he put it off for a day (said 9pm yesterday then 9pm tonight) and
                  2. M1MWU9: then talking like he wasn’t up to it, and before he even knew what it was and even though he was clearly overestimating the work (he seemed to think it would take hours each week!)
                  3. M1MWVF:  but then I told him, as is the truth, in reality  it was totally minimized for him:
                    1. M1MWWP: just take just ~10 to 20 min on SOME weeks, a duty also already shared with others so only a fraction him
                    2. M1MWXJ: and it would take just ~20min boot-strap him into his duties which were super easy, and just 1 time to learn them -that’s the hardest part
                    3. M1MWYX: –In other words, take him a fraction of the time he had already spent preparing slides,
                  4. M1MWZI: but (I’m guessing) because it wasn’t tech but people & admin, that caused his resistance –based on other techs I had seen in our group (this reaction would not be untypical).
                  5. M1MWZZ: And then in fact our call got strangely cut-off and he didn’t reply back (except for 1 quick SMS); I replied back “Where’d u go all of sudden? R r ok? R u discouraged? I don’t know what’s wrong&am getting worried..” but still no reply. –it could have been some phone error, but to get no reply after hours makes me think otherwise.
        2. M1KEBM: Complete intros for every attendee (not skipping this ever)
        3. M1KEEA: Now starting to get presentations (as PhoneGap, which took ~30 min all told)
        4. M1MXXR: The meetups are now adding to the hacking/project-building also parallel training and now Users-meeting, so adding additional delay over breaking out the different sub-groups and getting each up & rolling. I’m estimating an additional ~15min due to this.
      3. M1KEFD: This new venue, a restaurant,  is great (I love it & want to use it) but it has these stipulations & drawbacks which require more time at the meetup; here they are from roughly most to least time-consuming:
        1. M1O3DB: Easy to forget but important (Lucy reminds me). We get the room for free (& with minimal scheduling & hassle, too), but in exchange we are expected to buy & eat their food at our meetings. Indeed some restaurants mandate this (Dave & Busters requires catering the # of dishes (ordered in advance) and at steep price, and Mimi’s would send over a waiter/waitress); here we’re allowed to go about our own business without even 1 person explicitly asking us to order, but even more then we sure don’t want to wear out welcome.  So then here us eating for the most part isn’t optional (yes, “any” attendee can opt out, but still most must eat reasonably overall else we risk loosing the venue). So while food is “an extra & optional snack & maybe dinner” at non-restaurants (including our last-venue), here at a restaurant a meal (in our case, notably dinner) is overall required. So we need to allow time for this (a meal), and that would then mean:
          1. M1O3NA: at least 30min more if not an hour, plus
          2. M1O3NS: ideally starting at a meal time (as 6pm) so attendees are generally feeling like & more-expecting to eat.
        2. M1KEG3Requires us to bring & set up new wifi Internet each time; and attendees have to find & sometimes switch SSID. This costs us ~10min more.
        3. M1KEHA: Requires us to bring & set up, and pack up AC extension cables & outlets. This costs us ~5min more.
        4. M1MXIL: Interrupts leaders & every hungry attendee having to order food or at least a drink.  Yes, a leader saves time not having to order & bring food before the meeting, but now the ordering is interrupting meeting time, and for every attendee. True this is only ~5min ea person, but still an added interruption & delay.
        5. M1KEIJ: Closes promptly at 10:00pm.  This mostly costs just leaders when they occasionally need to (and are willing to) stay later to work, as that’s not practical here: as everything needs to be packed up to take it out, so would have to be set up again to continue work and there’s no convenient place to do that then.
      4. M1KINM: Members sometimes need to leave before closing (10:00pm) as ~9:45pm
        1. M1KIPC: At last instance 45 1st-time attendee Michael Mojadad was getting tired ~9:45pm and Lucy wanted to leave earlier this one time.
    2. M1MXVL: Our original OCAndroid general meetings, starting back from ~meeting 2 (which were also at a restaurant: Knowlwood), DID run 6:00pm-~9:30pm in order to allow for setup and also ordering & having dinner, and now our present meetups have additional demands of:
      1. M1MY79: serious Hacking/building-projects (which back then was never done in practice) and/or serious training (which was also not scheduled then) and now Users issues.
      2. M1MY8R:  Bringing in & setting-up\ wifi Internet
      3. M1MYCC: Additional admin of having & coordinating multiple leaders (required for scale-ability & long-term reliability)
    3. M1N1TE: Our “sister” group for iOS, “OCiOS”, has its general meetings at a restaurant and starts them at 6:00pm; next real example.
    4. M1MYF8: Professionally run & local has their meetings starting at 6:30pm and they DON’T have dinner: next real example, so with dinner we should start at least at 6:00pm.
    5. M1MYN1: CON: With traffic, it will be hard for some to make 6:00pm.  Yes, but:
      1. M1MYO3: It looks like most of our present leaders can because they don’t have jobs that require them there 9-5.
      2. M1MYPE: If someone is late, they will miss setup, networking, & most-eating, maybe intros, none of which is killer.
    6. M1MYQY: CON: a 4-hour meeting is a long meeting. Yes, but:
      1. M1MYRT: We have a lot to cover because we’re combining meetings, heaving because we’re not getting the leadership and/or attendance to run separate more focused meetings.
      2. M1MYTL: We do have ~>1hr of our meeting time dedicated “building” which is at-your-own-pace & direction hacking/projects and/or training and/or discussion.
  5. M1KIWH: Leader & member feedback as of (now=pst2012.03.29pst16)

    1. M1KIX9: I (Destiny), Head of OCAndroid since 2010, am very strongly in favor not just starting at 6:30pm but really starting at 6:00pm, especially after carefully writing up the facts above; but I’m willing to solicit & consider leader & member feedback, indeed 1/2 of the reason why I wrote this (the other 1/2 was to carefully think it through).
    2. M1KIXP: Users Leader Lucy so far hasn’t read this page yet but from just our talk has contributed to a number of points in favor of it (latest being M1O3DB) and in favor of starting at 6:30pm and this semester can’t always make starting at 6:00pm but may be in favor of it nonetheless & says she’ll read this page & comment.
    3. M1MEIW: Yesterday 9pm, incoming Developers Leader Stuart hadn’t read this page yet but from our talk has me he was okay with starting at 6:30pm, and I haven’t gotten his answer on more.
    4. M1KJ1G: More feedback to come. Including post comments below!
  6. Additional document history, in order
    1. M1MEE8: Currently this material is posted at /965#M1KE1R but its details there are starting to overload that page a little plus it’s hard to post comments just there.
    2. M1MELI: So now creating this post with fresh ID M1MELJ

  5 Responses to “OCAndroid Developers[+Users] Meetups hour range: expand fr 7:00pm-10:00pm to say 6:00pm-10:00pm”

  1. Just 1st announced this article by a comment M1O6D0 linking to it on event next=46 and on next-next=47 since that will cover all most-active actual attendees.

  2. I’m OK with starting at 6:00 p.m. We may get more done. I may sometimes be a little late due to temporary Monday afternoon commitments this spring. One benefit would be that if people come earlier, they are more likely to come hungry, and the restaurant may sell more food — which, of course, is their reason for letting us use the nice venue.

  3. Still soliciting feedback, but since I didn’t expect there would be any/much objection and didn’t want to risk loosing the venue for any of our meetings plus plus to insure the venue could do it starting 1hr earlier, per this I just booked the room for us every Monday 6:00pm-10:00pm for at least all of next month; worth noting that Wed was now NOT available every day next month so good I booked now.

  4. *Yesterday evening I talked with leader Bill on the phone and he’s fine with this, “starting at 6:00pm”, too.
    *So with 0 objection, I’m now making that change.