Apr 152012
 

M2IF7F:

  1. M2IFA9: Title & URL: Meetup.com member profile Greets are NOT to be deleted except in a few specified cases http://1.JotHere.com/2829#M2IF7F
  2. M2IFAK: Definition (The Rule)

    1. M2IFDR:Other meetup users can post Greets, aka Shouts, on a Meetup.com member profile: see a real profile with a lot of Greets.

    2. M2IFHF:These Greets are not to be deleted/removed except in appropriate cases, which are rare & specified here:

      1. M2IFJB:If the poster of the greet replaces the Greet within say 5 minutes with another Greet with only minor correction & clarification, then the original Greet can be deleted by it’s original poster.
      2. M2IFMW:The heads of the Meetup group(s) to which the Greet is most related (else Meetup support if none) may delete Greet(s) in this rare case:
        1. M2IKAK: only if these leaders majority-agree to all the following:
          1. M2IFZA:“Due Process” rule (Before you do most anything which could negatively affect others L2PGK2) is followed!
          2. M2J6OC: The Greet’s deletion is justified by it being NOT within Freedom-of-Speech Right.
        2. M2IK1Z: Note that since Meetup Greets cannot be edited-nor-abridged and cannot have attached replies, say to disclaim, discredit, and/or correct the Greet, in some cases deleting a Greet IS the only reasonable solution.
    3. M2IGJB:How to handle (an instance of improperly deleted greets=a break of this rule):

      1. M2JALN: Do the following steps in order:
        1. M2IGNL: restore the Greets as much as possible from backup
          1. M2JBGX: Locate & count all deleted greets plus all restorable ones.
            1. M2IH6W: Backup copies of user profiles can be found (when kept) in the JIT_archive_LJNZCF.
          2. M2JAPS: Post on the profile where the Greets were deleted: quote(“M2JAPS: Likely when I was about to post you a Greet, I noticed you had on this your profile (Greets improperly deleted=a break of http://1.JotHere.com/2829#M2IF7F) so, before I or anyone posts any more Greets here, I’m now first (restoring these past Greets per http://1.JotHere.com/2829#M2IGJB) so when done I will give u a concluding Greet letting u know. In the meantime or soon, read these URLs for background & to avoid this happening again, that’s all you need to do.”)
          3. M2JFO7: Restore greets in the order they were posted
          4. M2IGOQ: Make each restored Greet say quote(I restore ur Greet fr (me|http://Meetup.com/member/<UserNumber/>):”<Greet copy, which should be of the form <Username/><br/><GroupName if displayed/><br/><GreetBody/><br/><Greet Date/>”) except as noted.
            1. M2JBSO: else where that won’t fit post the original Greet contents then immediately post a 2nd Greet containing
              quote(I restore ur Greet fr (me|http://Meetup.com/member/<UserNumber/>):”<Username/><br/><GroupName if displayed/><br/><Greet Date/>” with its contents in the (prior=below) Greet here:):
        2. M2IGQW: post 1 more Greet saying quote(“M2IGQW: >=[<count1/>] Greets (prior=below) were improperly deleted (strike [<StrikeCount/>] of 3 for the deleter,taken to be (u|<UserName/> http://Meetup.com/member/<UserNumber/>)) so I have taken the time to find&restore the below [<count2/>] that were fortunately backed up. (Meetup.com member profile Greets are NOT to be deleted except in a few cases http://1.JotHere.com/2829#M2IF7F) -pls read for what,why,&improper-deletion BIG consequences. &Thx 4ur cooperation to insure this doesn’t happen again.”)
        3. M2IGLA: the member doing the deletion
          1. M2II89: If NOT the same as the profile where the deletion occurred, Greet on his/her profile quote(“M2II89: [<count1/>] Greets on [<userName/> user profile http://Meetup.com/member/<UserNumber/>]were improperly deleted, apparently by you (strike [<StrikeCount/>/] of 3), so I have taken the time to find&restore the [<count2/>] that were fortunately backed up.  (Meetup.com member profile Greets are NOT to be deleted except in a few cases http://1.JotHere.com/2829#M2IF7F) -pls read for what,why,&improper-deletion BIG consequences. &Thx 4ur cooperation to insure this doesn’t happen again.”)
          2. M2IGKIOn the 2nd offense, the offender is also removed from the group, to effect a suspension for 1 month
            1. M2JC5X: given especially this takes considerable work to restore the greets, plus to detect when they have been removed, plus back them up in the first place, which is all manually done.
          3. M2IILQOn the 3rd offense, the offender is banned from the group, to effect a suspension of 1 year.
            1. M2JCE7: again, especially given the considerable detection & undo work.
  3. M2IG7S: Motivation

    1. MHGEDY:You don’t want to needlessly quite piss people off, plus disservice everyone!

      1. MHGFKY:- that can & typically-deservedly-should hurt your reputation more than anything negative about you or something you care about contained in the Greet(s) you deleted.
        1. MHGFRM:including if you piss-people off enough, as long as what they posted doesn’t violate Terms-of-Service, they easily can & may repost what you deleted, plus the fact that you so disrespectfully deleted it, where you no longer can delete it and is high-ranked within Google and other web search, hurting your reputation much more (as coming up when anyone web-searches for you name or product), such as reposting on this site JotHere and hundreds of others. Don’t push people to appropriately do that to you.
        2. MHGGAO:And if the Greet was just constructive and relevant criticism, and sometimes worse, your deleting it also appropriately demonstrates that you are weak and attempting to hide bad stuff from the world.
      2. MHGEOV:who is made needlessly upset?
        1. MHGEFG:You don’t want to needlessly piss off people concerned about the matters of the Greet
          1. MHGEVT:so depending on the Greet being there on your profile to insure the matter is addressed and credited and record, and that proper communication was done, for both good & bad.
            1. MHGF6W:Know also Meetup (quite wrongfully) sends only you the recipient a copy the posted text, the creator gets nothing, so by default, if you delete it, only you have a copy!
              1. MHGP51:But these wrongful Greet deletions are common and hard to predict, so making protecting against them a necessity: one pretty much has to archive all Greet & event-comment posts. But that is expensive, as it generally means one has to to manually save & version the web page after every post of new content (as a Greet or other comment) on to ; I have streamlined this archive systems as /LXUV7P but it still cuts down productivity to about 1/2 and, being manual, it’s still easy to archive to archive and have  total loss of the content as just happened again to me.
          2. MHGFCK:You don’t want to needlessly piss off people as typically other group leaders plus regularly other members, sometimes also in other groups, plus of course the Greet author.
        2. MHGEQ6:You don’t want to disservice everyone, as potentially anyone is depending on Greets on each person’s profile, expectantly bad & good & neutral ones, to have some sort of reputation of this person.
      3. MHGHAM:why are people needlessly pissed-off & dis-serviced?
        1. MHGHFP:Because his rule provides a way to deal with it without needlessly upsetting anyone, because it understands & respects the reality of the situation explained next:
    2. M2IG8I: The combination of all the following:
      1. M2IGB8: Every Greet is depended on to be there in the following situations:

        1. M2IGD1: For group leaders (realize there are can & should be many of them) to give and keep track the directions & info given to members in a location they can easily all access, share, & contribute to
          1. M2IGGP: For instance, was this member already welcomed? Was this member already invited to the upcoming meeting? Was this member already asked if s/he was a no-show. Was this member already told 2x in a row their picture did not conform to the group standard? Was this member
          2. M2JJ1Y: Another common use is to save a template message sent to several persons.  As, “Hey, this person doesn’t have their pic right, too. What was that great message the other leader just sent to Brian which caused him to fix his pic? -Just look on his Greets.” but if the Greet’s since deleted, u may not have the message saved (or saved where the other leader can find it) and/or be able to tell which message template worked (& how) and which didn’t.
        2. M2J2OC: For anyone in the Meetup community, to assess a person, including there is almost no other public verification of Meetup profiles
          1. M2J2SJ: In what areas is this a good person and in what areas is s/he problems?
            1. M2J3RB: Is this person a good group leader or has sh/e not backed up events s/he’s hosted or (common) abused group members & their content & maybe even on a whim?
            2. M2J3R0: Is this person safe to date or have as a friend, or does s/he cause other members’ problems.
            3. M2J3UZ: Does this person show up when they RSVP YES or not, or say show up without RSVPing YES?
            4. M2J41F: Does this person respect group rules if they are choosing to be a member, or do they cause havoc and/or be a bully, and perhaps has had a history in past groups of causing trouble (note, a serious bug, Meetup removes from the site all a person’s past membership & history)
          2. M2J3OT: Greets provide seemingly the # 1 mechanism to see this.  But if a person could just delete say the negative or critical greets, that would mess this up.
            1. M2J43D: Just as it’s not OK do delete negative feedback on an say an eBay purchase, so it is NOT okay to in general delete a Greet which is a review.  Indeed if such deletions WERE allowed on eBay, eBay would mostly no longer function & be trustable,
          3. M2J46J: With almost no exceptions, on a Meetup profile:
            1. M2J2YO: Nothing is verified
              1. M2J347: The name could & often is invented, the picture could be wrong or sometimes missing or some other image, the location can wrong and sometimes is fake, the bio could be completely fake, and (other than via Greets) ; indeed the entire profile can be & occasionally is entirely fake.
            2. M2J3KE:  nothing is reported about the person behind the Meetup profile if the person chooses to hide it.
              1. M2J59C: The profile holder can give whatever answers they want and nothing is verified.
              2. M2J4UG: The profile holder can hide all his/her groups (and about 15% do)
              3. M2J4WN: The profile holder can delete Greets on the profile (all of them, or just the ones containing facts they wrongly want to hide), and the only thing to stop them now is this rule.
              4. M2J51T: nothing about the  person’s character (do they keep their promises, can they be trusted, do they have ulterior motives, do they cause certain problems, what’s their membership history & performance) is shown with just a few most-minimal exceptions
            3. M2J4I7: The exceptions. Meetup will correctly report a very limited amount of information about the profile:
              1. M2J31B: when the profile joined meetup,
              2. M2J4N6:  what groups the profile is currently a member of when & the titles within each, but only if the profile’s maker didn’t hide their groups (fairly common) and only for current groups (no past history)
              3. M2J3D4: each group profile (but NOT the main profile) will show “no-shows” within that group, but these are only shown to the the official group organizers and only when looking at the profile within their group
        3. M2IIS9: For the member being greeted, to keep a record to what was said to them
          1. M2IITT: Especially important to the member
            1. M2IIV5: if later s/he finds she has been misinformed, or just simply forgot
            2. M2IIWQ: to prevent anyone from denying they said something (especially if what they said is bad)
        4. M2IIYL: For the member Greeting, to keep a record of what they said
          1. M2IIZ7: Especially important if the recipient later mis-claims “I wasn’t told” or “you misinformed me”
        5. M2IJ0U: For all in the conversation, to keep a record of what was said, indeed one the lasts for as long as anyone could need
          1. M2IJ2K: Note that because Greets are public, there can (and often are) other readers beyond the sender & recipient, so one should not just freely delete the content as if it was their private messages: these are public messages, and:
          2. M2IJ5L: everyone deserves a reliable record of the conversation WITHOUT having to archive it and worry & check if someone later deleted some piece of the talk.
      2. M2IG93: The software to make it impossible to casually delete greets without worry & even detection is NOT there:

        1. MHGPF0:As with many social problems on Meetup, Meetup makers (Meetup.com) are the #1 most responsible for this problem.
          1. MHGPNF:Their most to least serious mistakes here:
            1. M2J83V: Meetup software currently allows both the sender & recipient of a Greet to permanently delete the Greet at any time w/o cause (and with just a single click!)
              1.  M2J85H: This is far too liberal, the main motivation for this rule.
            2. M2IJD4: Meetup does not keep a backup of Greets, and Meetup only emails the Greet to the recipient (so the sender will almost-certainly not have it unless s/he made a backup.
            3. M2IJDJ: Even if one does have a backup, it is still tricky (& far from automatic) to be able to detect & notice that now certain greets are missing (as have been deleted).
      3. M2IJGN:  Thankfully the vast majority of Meetup members don’t have a problem here: without being told, they do the right thing (don’t delete Greets); BUT a few do, why this rule was written:

        1. M2IJJY: ~5% of Meetup members just seem to delete their Greets, indeed all of them, for no apparent reason.
          1. M2IKHB: Real example 36432632
          2. M2IKDR: Real example 39798562 –NOW A BROKEN URL because the member then later also disrespectfully quit the group (so perhaps this first misbehavior for more to unavoidably come) so here’s his still-working main-profile 39798562
          3. M2JEQD: Why do they do it? I don’t know but
            1. M2JERS: Maybe because they feel they’ve handled the Greet so now can delete it
              1. M2JESO: As perhaps they are in the bad habit of doing this with their email (of deleting email instead archiving them, especially for personal email), perhaps unknowing the proper way then is to mark the email complete (as in Outlook) or archive it (as in Gmail).
              2. M2JEZJ: Though that was not the case in this real example x562 ; My “Apr 04, 2012 3:40 PM” alerted “To my surprise,ur grps&interests are hidden again” then that Greet & all greets were deleted without this being fixed.
            2. M2JEQZ: Maybe because they think they will run out of space (they won’t)
        2. M2IJOF: I’m guestimating about 35% of Meetup members will delete a Greet simply if they find it very upsetting. But, by this rule, being upsetting is NOT a valid reason, moreover what is valid is rare & should be judged by the Head leaders.
          1. M2IJUK: While seemingly many times more people would break the rule here, in practice such breaks seem rare as very upsetting Greets seem to be rare.
  4. M2J8C6: Additional document history, in order

    1. M2J8CI: To properly correct the real examples of M2IJJYBefore you take any action L2PGK2 required writing & publishing such a rule.
    2. M2J8FH: At the time of its ID, created this post.
    3. Version 1.1
    4. M43NIW: Added link-fix of Real example 39798562 above and updated 1st status line to match latest of http://1.JotHere.com/3159#M41B3P
    5. MHGE93:now had to edit in WordPress 3.5 (3.5.1) which causes mild-anchor corruption which will need fixing when that’s possible.
    6. MHGEBA:Partially update to latest post-formatting standards.
    7. MHGLM0:Motivated better inform 17482171 per his just violating this rule (if it were to be in effect there) via his silently & unexpectedly deleting my yesterday Greet on his profile, improved this post including most notably added MHGEDY & significantly extended M2IKAK; pst2013.01.30Wed1542.
    8. MHPPTX:Moved out (promoted) content Don’t delete Greets#M2IKAK per (&~to) 3975#MHPP3T; renamed from(Meetup.com member profile Greets are NOT to be deleted except in a few cases) to present for additional clarity; pst2013.02.04Mon1641.

  4 Responses to “Meetup.com member profile Greets are NOT to be deleted except in a few specified cases”

    • So far this seems to have worked. He immediately emailed me (should have Greeted me, but still overall right)

      ———- Forwarded message ———-
      From: . . < [confidential]@gmail.com>
      Date: Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 1:38 PM
      Subject: didn’t know about the greet rules
      To: Destiny Architect
      Hey Destiny, Didn’t know about the greet rules. Sorry about the mix up.

      to which you see I Greeted back

      *U email “Didn’t know about the greet rules. Sorry”;Thx!&u CDNT know b4as brand new starting 4u! But kindly ans why u deleted http://1.JotHere.com/2829#M2JEQD VIA cmt there,thx!
      Apr 15, 2012 3:02 PM

    • Sadly a good bunch of those who delete their Greets are a probably already “lost cause” even after this informing training, their tenancy to delete Greets is really a symptom of more serious problems. To illustrate, here’s followup Greet that I later found myself posting to this guy (after discovering all the Greets I restored for him above he had deleted again!, and worse)

      DestinyArchitect
      *U unexpectedly quit our http://Meetup..com/OCAndroid w/o even givin reason -esp sad as I&mbrs invested gd work into u
      *U deleted all ur Greets again!-against my explain not2&u apologizin http://1.JotHere.com/2829#comment-230 ,u did again!(BUT,here a perm pub copy http://0.jothere.com/L8IPUB/!svn/bc/2682/JIT_archive_LJNZCF/meetup.com/members/39798562/M2JK1N%5b_HTML_Chrome%5d.htm in case of such nonsense)
      *U still hv fake pic&hide ur grps;&cut ur lname
      *In sum,u seem 2b major paranoid -pls fix
      May 15, 2012 9:43 PM

      –and actually “paranoid” is just one of his apparent problems; he is also clearly disrespectful in the way he quit our group even despite the personal investment I & other group members put in him.

      And naturally, if 2x history is any predictor, one would expect him to delete this above Greet, too. Of course I hope for the best (as his apologizing and undoing all the above brought to his attention), in expecting the worst, the Greet’s already archived in prep for him to do this again.