Apr 232012
 Posted by on UTC 2012.04.23Mon at 21:13 of Meetup.com/OCAndroid M2CI1L  Add comments


  1. Title:For OCAndroid hacking, attendees bring their extension of a preselected open-source program

  2. URL:http://1.JotHere.com/2975#M3KU93
  3. Description

    1. TBA
  4. Some history

    1. I 1st proposed this idea during OCAndroid Developers Meetup (#49: pst2012.04.23Mon)
    2.  M3MGKL: Destiny made small improvements to this post: adding an ID plus heading formatting.

  16 Responses to “For OCAndroid hacking, attendees bring their extension of a preselected open-source program”

    • The software program I pick for here is TBA

    • As we’re running short of time before Monday when Meetup auto-announces this listing and (msrtech aka OCAndroid leader Kathy aka msrtech) had not done this next step yet and in my doing it Meetup would alert her, I just posted a comment on the event listing announcing this which then then should have been instantly emailed to everyone on the RSVP YES list, but currently that’s only the 5 main OCAndroid leaders, however as the comment explains, “Kathy will hopefully complete these details[ on this page] ASAP, esp b4 Monday when Meetup will automatically (1 week b4) 1st email this listing to all 208 members.”

    • At the time noted here, Kathy=msrtech sent the following email to all OCAndroid members apparently via Meetup’s Announce event function, with a message prefacing it:

      From: The Orange Co. Android Developer+User Community Group <info@meetup.com>
      Date: Mon, May 7, 2012 at 10:34 AM
      Subject: New Meetup: OCAndroid Developers Meetup #55(COMPARE-YOUR-CODE)
      To: lcdest@loverules.info

      The Orange Co. Android Developer+User Community Group
      Added by DestinyArchitect
      Monday, May 14, 2012
      6:00 PM
      Round Table Pizza
      22722 Lambert St # 1705
      Lake Forest, CA 92630
      I’m going

      Change your RSVP

      5 members attending, including:
      “I own MSRtech, a Android development company with emphasis on business related APP’s….”
      “Been a java developer for many years. Just started to look into Android development….”
      “Professional software engineer, toying with a new Android tablet I just picked up….”
      “I’m not a developer but an Android user and fan. I especially like the price I pay…”

      A message from Kathryn K Free (Event Organizer)
      “Our Next Meetup is going to be exciting!

      I am wading through Meetup and jothere to understand how to post BUT want to get this out to everyone before posting on jothere

      Meeting Schedule is:
      6:00pm – 7:00pm social hour for meeting new friends
      7:00pm – 7:30pm industry updates & news
      7:30pm – 9:00pm code sharing/learning
      9:00pm – 10:00pm hacking (for those who want to stay)

      We are going to be actually sharing and looking at code together so everyone can learn.

      An open source Android project has been selected. . .each developer is to work with the selected open source project and create or incorporate the code into an existing Android APP. . .then those who wish to share will be given time to show what they have done with the open code!

      Contact Kathy for the project details by calling 949.267.8647 or emailing her at kkf@msrtech.com or by posting in Meetup.

      More details to follow!”

      (LT2MOD last mod=pst2012.04.30Mon1930)(LT2VER version=7.0) (LT2STA=prior versions well tested; please RSVP & comment)(LT2NAM=

      M0TBPV:  See the details of meetup #54 amid all instances listed in order; key quotes from there:

      M1KE1R: Hour ran…

      Ubuntu Hour of Lake Forest

      Thursday, May 17, 2012 6:00 PM · 1 attending
      Ubuntu Hour of Lake Forest

      Thursday, May 31, 2012 6:00 PM · 1 attending
      Ubuntu Hour of Lake Forest

      Thursday, June 14, 2012 6:00 PM · 1 attending

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      • (In case one wouldn’t know,
        *while this is publicly posted, do not worry so much that it will be read for by the world.
        **It won’t, especially given it’s buried in subcomment, unless somebody calls attention to it.
        **Things as this only get real attention if they become a hot search topic (very unlikely) or if the are called attention to as by being emailed out, but this is NOT being emailed out to anyone except the person it is addressed to.
        *You might say why not keep it all in email, as has been the custom before Web 2.0? Because email is
        **much more difficult to share, including share the full discussion, with the few people who DO need to read it, as very close group leaders.
        **impossible to correct when you misspeak then email out
        **harder & much more confusing to respond just to subpoints (here has nested threaded comments)

        *it’s good that you take the lead and share plans to the group, and
        *and a lot of the things you put here a good,
        *but here (in the subcomments) are several serious problems with this which I would like you to correct right away else I will have to correct. From roughly most to least serious, followed by what to do to fix:

        • I & this job asked you to post, not email.

          And why did I & the job ask? Because that’s the group rule: Our “Read more about us” on every page of our http://www.meetup.com/OCAndroid/ site has “(LTECO0=With each other (and ideally everyone), members should (communicate foremost by appropriate posting)LRBX9W and avoid private-messages & calls when possible to avoid.
          Which you should know & follow, most especially as a leader (else ASK before making an exception, most especially if it involves emailing the whole group!)

          And why do the rules this? As they explain, posting can easily be corrected by editing, email cannot –that is without another email to everyone explaining the changes (then burdening all to read that to), plus unretractable record in everyone’s inbox of the mistake announcement, which can continue to mislead if that is seen and not the update. Moreover posting is the main main convention on Meetup, not just JotHere. Moreover, in the case of private email (not applicable here), posting shows participation but private email hides that participation from everyone else. And more reasons.

          But instead you:
          *do the opposite, you email, causing many of the problems this rule says that will cause
          *And you mislead members into thinking that the existing systems, Meetup & JotHere, would make posting problematic
          *and you you foremost direct all our members to private message (call & email), in particular to private message you
          –that’s wrong, most especially given you’re a leader.

          • For this reason, the group rules ask all leaders which haven’t yet gotten written authorization to to email the whole group on their own to first get their proposed email approved in writing by a leader who has earned this authority. This extra small step saves all sorts of problems: preventing small mistakes from becoming big ones. Yes I have not gone over this rule with you, but I didn’t expect to as I didn’t expect you would be emailing the whole group as the job didn’t ask for that.

          • Moreover (due to yet another bug limitation of Meetup), this kind of email to all members (an event announcement with a custom message) is not kept on the Meetup site anywhere, including notably not in http://www.meetup.com/OCAndroid/messages/archive/ nor in http://www.meetup.com/OCAndroid/messages/boards/ ), therefore, if choosing to do this sort of email, one must also then immediately manually archive it. I’ve done so for you & everyone at parent comment http://2.loverules.info/2975#comment-469 then also allowing me and everyone to comment on it, as this comment thread.

          • You write, indeed begin your custom message emailed to every member:
            >I am wading through Meetup and jothere to understand how to post BUT want to get this out to everyone before posting on jothere

            • If you have a problem with these 2 tools (Meetup and *JotHere” (not “jothere”, note capitalization)), why didn’t you SMS or call me? -especially when you know I’m just an SMS or call away to help you and have always most immediately replied. Indeed you know I was SMSing on Saturday as I saw you weren’t getting started on your posting.

              But instead of contacting me, and instead of posting you, email the whole group (detailed above), and email them beginning with misleading undeserved negative note against Meetup and JotHere: “wading though …to understand how to post” as if there was no one to help you.
              When in truth Meetup & JotHere:
              *have both proven to work
              *while they both require some time to learn, it’s mostly still due to the inherit complexity of the problems they solve
              *once you know them, they are easy&quick to use, especially JotHere
              *you’ve had ample time (numerous meetings and as a Leader title) and encouragement to get familiar with them
              *even if you haven’t gotten familiar much (which you say is the case), all you need to do is SMS or call me as you know (above).

              Instead the real reason for this is you’ve left the work beyond (the before-Monday cutoff which I warned you about above http://2.loverules.info/2975#comment-467 ), a 2ndary reason for the unpleasant results detailed in my comment “in sum”,

          • You end your message, emailed to all members, “Contact Kathy for the project details by calling 949…..8647 or emailing her at kk..ff@msrtech.com or by posting in Meetup.”

            This is the exact opposite of what the I, the job, & the rules asked you do.

            Repeatedly I asked you simply to post on this JotHere page.

            Moreover, in this page’s creation, I manually stepped you thru how to post here, how we then created this page and created your posts on it.

            But instead of doing any posts here, you send email, and direct all to also do private messaging, or else post on Meetup, not even mentioning this page. And without asking before you did this.

            In addition to the rule mentioned, this also violates its sub rule (also on http://Meetup.com/OCAndroid pages “Read more about us”) “(LTECMG=No posting direct contacts (as phone #s & emails) except for carpooling & finding-at-a-group-event.))”. Posting your contacts is even against the principles of Meetup, as Meetup also intends & provides for all communications to go thru them: ordinary members should NEVER be required to expose their email and/or phone # in order to participate in a group event. However most seriously is keeps this group related talk, which DOESN’T need to be hidden from the group, from the rest of the group (unless it is manually & immediately reposted, which it typically isn’t), which is against the group spirit.

            Telling people to email or call you has got to go. It must be as I told you in above my comment for Monday where it says “I just posted a comment on the event listing announcing this” saying on the event listing itself

            *FEATURED ACTIVITY “COMPARE-YOUR-CODE” http://1.JotHere.com/2975#comment-321
            **see that Kathy’s cmt&page for the latest details&ur prep instructions, including:
            **”For OCAndroid hacking, attendees bring their extension of a preselected open-source program”
            **Delightfully 2 mtgs ago Kathy said she’d run this4us
            **Kathy will hopefully complete these details ASAP, esp b4 Monday when Meetup will automatically (1 week b4) 1st email this listing to all 208 members.

            Yes, if a member, especially a non-leader, has trouble posting on http://1.JotHere.com/2975#comment-321 , until that’s fixed it’s okay to post on Meetup, most notably on the event listing as a comment, and if it won’t all fit there, then as a comment linking to a Meetup discussion thread that exists or they create. But, by this rule, it is never for anyone to solicit ordinary members to email or phone them except as noted.

            • The very last words of your custom message are “More details to follow.”. As one could infer from the parent comment, this should be handled as it already was handled on the event listing: “http://1.JotHere.com/2975#comment-321 **see that Kathy’s cmt&page for the latest details”.

          • In sum,

            *You don’t do significant right things:
            **do what was specifically asked: posting where directed, not emailing
            **ask and get approval before doing something different from what was asked
            **don’t leave the work to the last minute, especially inspire of reminders
            **take responsibility for your error to leave the work beyond the deadline
            **contacting me for help now especially now the deadline is past

            *and you instead do a number of wrong things:
            **you do a rush job with mistakes, including more below
            **without permission, you don’t do the job asked (you email instead of post), and even though that would have avoided virtually all of these problems
            **you don’t get your content reviewed by a higher leader before it’s sent to the whole group, especially when you haven’t emailed to the whole group before and don’t have written permission to do so
            **to your email to all our members:
            ***you blame on someone else & someone undeserving: wrongly suggest to all members in your 1st words that the problem is seemingly with Meetup & JotHere
            ***You break the rules of doing direct email instead of posting, plus tell our members to do the same (by private communicating with you, and also break the rules of posting (indeed emailing) your direct contacts)
            ***You don’t give the accurate reason for emailing now: the real/reasonable reason is I’ve informed you that Meetup will auto-email the group on Monday, but instead you say it’s because you “want to get this out to everyone before posting on jothere”
            ****If you had simply contacted me, I could show how to turn off the auto-announcement to allow you & us more time; no we wouldn’t want delay the announcement more than say 1 day, but at least that would be plenty of time to avoid a rush job and these hard-to-correct mistakes.
            ****You email all members you’re emailing you “want to get this [emailed ]out to everyone before posting” but that’s
            *****a backwards motive. As I explained the day I helped you create this page, one posts post 1st to get your ideas sorted with those you are working with, but no one (but those really interested) will really see them in practice, yes even if they are on the public web; so then one emails them out (or pays Google for ads, or other marketing) to bring general/member attention to what you’ve posted.
            *****against the posted rules of our group, which you should know & follow, most especially as a leader. Our “Read more about us” on every page of our http://www.meetup.com/OCAndroid/ site has “(LTECO0=With each other (and ideally everyone), members should (communicate foremost by appropriate posting)LRBX9W and avoid private-messages & calls when possible to avoid. For instance,..”
            **And by emailing any details (instead of posting them), you also make all these & any mistakes hard & embarrassing to correct as I explain above.

            To remain a leader, I will not tolerate this happening again.

        • You post “An open source Android project has been selected.”
          *What one?
          –simply answer where you effectively announced you would: in (or else in reply-to) your very first sub-comment on the topic
          *And why aren’t you saying now & here??
          **your very first sub-comment on the topic was that this is TBA, and now’s the time (indeed the whole point) as people need to prepare
          **I see no reason this should be a secret
          **I see plenty of problems is it is hard to find
          **So it could sound like in fact you haven’t yet selected one, or else haven’t yet selected one you are firm about, but instead are pretending you have already (to look good) when in fact you plan to solicit ideas when people contact you.
          *If you are unsure
          **It’s a bit late for that now, but, ESPECIALLY IF POSTED, most of the work here can be resued for when the event is done again
          **Simply update your very first sub-comment on the topic to include “We are (also) soliciting suggestions for these; simply reply to this comment with your suggestion.”

        • The “Meeting Schedule” section, if it exists, needs to respectfully reference and acknowledge our existing work & tradition, notably our present official recurring agenda MOTAGN, ideally explaining how it extends and/or changes it or (if truly necessary) replace it; instead presently what’s written sounds like it disregards as if it’s not even there.
          *The simplest thing is not to even have this section, as it’s already covered in the event listingalready, since it’s standard: “M0SMZZ: (new) Recurring-Agenda: recurring community meetup agenda M0TAGN
          **And if the existing event listing and/or the details in that link needed improvement, then to just improve that (I would be glad to work with you on this). That would benefit this and all future events
          *However, if indeed this schedule needed to be customized for just this one event, then it could be ideally listed as adding to else alternating the existing agenda, for instance, “6:00pm – 7:00pm social hour for meeting new friends” would instead be something like “6:00pm – 7:00pm informal-(food-getting then networking)“. Admittedly the present topic titles are not sexy, but they are accurate. And if if the needed work, then that would be first fixed in the prior step.
          *In the most extreme case (which his hopefully not necessary), we would use an entirely replacement agenda for this meeting.
          **This shouldn’t be done lightly, as the existing agenda covers important checklist of steps which are not included (and could not be included) in such a tiny Meeting schedule, though this would be ok if what you posted were called a “synopsis” meeting schedule.
          **That would then ideally be it’s own JotHere post, so it could be commented on and reused between meetings and go into details w/o overloading the event listing.
          **It should also say say “For this meeting we are replacing our recurring community meetup agenda M0TAGN with the one here because ____”.
          *In any case, this does NOT not need to included in the initial email out, especially since it’s a bit of detail, and covers many topics other than this activity, and clearly could take a bit of revising.

        • (under construction)
          As the first part in correcting the above, please do the following:

          Email to all our members (possibly via our mailing list http://www.meetup.com/OCAndroid/messages/archive/ )

          Dear OCAndroid members, regarding our OCAndroid Developers Meetup #55(COMPARE-YOUR-CODE)

          1. Please now RSVP-on-Meetup and suggest existing open-source Android programs here
          2. Regarding my “Mon, May 7, 2012 at 10:34 AM” email to all members announcing this event where I announced our compare-your-code sub-activity I’m doing there, some important corrections:
            1. Do NOT privately contact me nor anyone (about this event or other OCAndroid stuff) unless absolutely unavoidable & necessary.
              1. Instead, as is sensibly our group standard, post your reply comments and see all details on the appropriate web page location:
                *For this activity, see my comment starting it & the comment’s page which is on the activity in general.
              2. Indeed, my apologizes to you, as my asking to you to contact me direct (by direct phone & email) was a violation of the our group’s sensible rules posted on our “Read more about us” on every page of our http://www.meetup.com/OCAndroid/ site:
                *””(LTECO0=With each other (and ideally everyone), members should (communicate foremost by appropriate posting)LRBX9W and avoid private-messages & calls when possible to avoid. For instance,..”
                **”“(LTECMG=No posting[ nor other group-sharing of] direct contacts (as phone #s & emails) except for carpooling & finding-at-a-group-event.))”
            2. My “wading through Meetup and jothere to understand how to post”, indeed to where I left no time left so instead, did what I knew I wasn’t intended to do (emailed you my announcement, instead of posting) and without asking first, well all of that that is my own fault, as I should have asked, including asked for help, and including these 2 sites are largely easy once you learn them and are certainly nothing new, just me not stopping to take the time to learn them and even despite plenty of offers of help, a situation I now strongly intend to change, as:
              http://Meetup.com and http://JotHere.com sites have long been the group standard and are largely very easy to use once you learn them and and have been shown to work well for our sharing & collaborating, notably via their support of posting, and especially JotHere as goes beyond in many ways and is being quickly further improved, and these are our group’s standard sites, so I’m working increasingly hard to appreciate & learn them, and encourage you to do the same.
            3. Our Main Meetings already have a new standard agenda (MOTAGN), indeed for about the 8 meetings, and one which is also powerful detailed & heavily-proven; therefore I will work to understand & improve & extend this existing agenda before and as-part-of advocating any replacement agenda.
            4. These corrections wouldn’t have been necessary had I just followed the group’s good rule of asking before emailing to the entire group, something I will definitely do next time.
          3. Looking forward to your posts and Meetup-RSVPs and seeing you at the events!