May 052012

M3KE66: please comment here! -simply create an account if you don’t yet have one; the version ID of this post is the ID of the last entry of its history.

  1. M33YGV: Title:“As most web forms should do without the completer having to say this, please ((1) email me a complete copy of this my submission here and (2) display on this webform “We will email you a complete copy of your submission here for your records.”) per ”

  2. M33YH4: URL:
  3. M3KEH0: Definition

    1. M3F95S: The title & its URLs provide a very compact & complete summary.

    2. M3KELT: Instructions: when completing a webform where this would apply, in the main text body of the form, put as/in your conclusion, the paragraph (the title including its enclosing quotes so it’s clear it is a quote).

    3. M3KHL2: Where this applies

      1. M3KHMS: Any webform which doesn’t say and does offer the form completer a permanent record of all s/he said, and ideally offer everyone participating a permanent record of everything said
        1. M3KHOB: Including
          1. M3KHOP: “Contact us” web forms which don’t already do this
            1. M3KI95: Examples:
              1. M3KI9P: About 90% of them (though the % seems to be very slowly decreasing as websites clue in)
            2. M3KHPO: Exceptions (which DO do this) include:
              1. M3KHQN: (mostly) On, the forms enabling a Meetup member to (email another member, called “Send email” -real example) and (the head leaders of a group, called “Contact us” -a real example)
                1. M3KHUN: These all have the option “Send me a copy of this email for my records” which by default is properly turned on.
                2. M3KJ6N: Where these fall short: the copy sent to the sender still lacks key data
                  1. M3KJFN: The data lacking:
                    1. M3KJC8: the URL used to send the message
                      1. M3KJE8: Which, at least in Meetup’s case, would then solve all the remaining shortcomings.
                    2. M3KJBP: the URLs of the members it was sent to
                    3. M3KJCV: When sending to group leaders, the group’s URL else URL-name (which is short and will redirect if the name changes)
                  2. M3KJGE: This is readily fixed by the user who knows to fix it by including the lacking data in the message (as in the salutation)
                    1. M3KJI6: Real example, quote(
                      Dear Don & BETT , Head Organizers for SoCal-Tribe,


                  3. .
          2. M3KHVH: Any Web 2.0 site where posts and/or comments may be able to be deleted or changed without a permanent history of all prior versions
            1. M3KJV7: Many sites don’t version post history and/or too easily allow posts to be permanently deleted, in which case it would then be appropriate by this for them to email a copy.
            2. M3KK8F: indeed “ideally every participant should have a permanent record everything said”
            3. M3KI7I: Examples:
              1. M3KI83: Most of them, though the % seems to slowly be decreasing perhaps from seeing the good example & resultant achievement of Wikipedia.
            4. M3KHXW: Exceptions (which DO keep this full history)
              1. M3KHYI: http://Wikipedia.Org
              2. M3KHZG: (aims to keep such a history and does so as much as WordPress (which it uses) can be made to do it; already working for posts (including full versioning) except for (total-deletion so which it then disallows by its Terms-of-Service).
  4. M3KF4W: Motivations (from roughly greatest-to-least):

    1. M3KFEA: So people can fully have the ability to remember and ((stand-behind and follow) else correct) whatever they’ve said, it’s extremely helpful for each person to have a record of all s/he said

      1. M3KH7R: indeed
        1. M3KGQU: whenever a person is asked and/or expected, even casually, to stand-behind his/her words, this (the need for the speaker to have a record of what s/he said) is especially true, indeed it should be required and sometimes is.
        2. M3KGUR: (hopefully accidentally, (the speaker may misinform or say something which shouldn’t have been said) and/or (the listener/recipient may misuse the information)) then requiring (the speaker and sometimes his/her superiors and/or family) to know what the speaker said where the info flowed so the mistake can be corrected.
        3. M3KK2Y: ideally every participant should have a permanent record everything said.
      2. M3KFM1: consequently
        1. M3KF69: The speaker (form completer) probably wisely keeps a record of everything s/he says, at least in writing, so s/he can best “((stand-behind and follow) else correct)” it.
        2. M3KFYU: Those putting forth the form want to assure the form completer will by default get a copy of everything s/he said for this so the form completer
          1. M3KG55: will better see the form recipients take his/her answers seriously, and
          2. M3KG4F: will & can better insure his/her answers are accurate else corrected.
        3. M3KFVK: stand behind what they say, it’s wise for at least the speaker It’s wise for one to keep a record of everything s/he says, at least in writing, so s/he can stand behind it.
    2. M3KGHX: Why commonly not done?

      1. M3KGKF: Probably mostly because form makers don’t often think the process thru much further beyond just capturing the data for the form requesters.
        1. M3KHE0: Most notably, they don’t stop to think: “Wait a minute, how can the form completer be expected to really stand behind their answers if we don’t even give offer them a copy of what they said, and if we don’t say up-front that we do this so not to bother y don’t have to go to the trouble of manually making one? No we can’t really expect them if w don’t do this.”
  5. M33Z0T: Additional post history, in order:

    1. M3KE65:: I create this
      1. M3KNZ6: Why?
        1. M3KO0E: before
          1. M3KOP0: instead of this, what was done
            1. M3KNT3: was (when completing a web form where this was needed), I had been including a few unliked sentences there explaining the problem, such as (the title but without its links), sometimes by copying it from a standard somewhere and sometimes by writing it out.
            2. M3KO83: lacked the benefits of this
            3. M3KOSW: reached my limit when
              1. M3KO9A: I was completing
        2. M3KOD8: to add benefits:
          1. M3KOEJ: a way which is
            1. M3KP8D: an easy standard
            2. M3KP8W: public
            3. M3KP99: scalable, indeed allowing anyone to deal with this situation
            4. M3KOFM: includes links in the boilerplate text so:
              1. M3KOHT: it could be shorter as additional detail can be put in the link destination
              2. M3KOIM: if its links were followed,
                1. M3KOH4:  would explain fully, indeed allows for and does explain in significant detail
                2. M3KOKD: could solicit & get feedback for further development
                3. M3KOJZ: could be updated there
                4. M3KOJL: could generate ad revenue
      2. M3KNXM: by:
        1. M37OOV: on (the most similar recent one= latest version M3IS6S, do Copy to a new draft
        2. M37OP0: then there: created this entry, give this a new ID, then updated content to fit.
    2. M3KQ79: Now have a fairly usable, releasable version, so 1st publish.