Nov 092012


  1. MAYCNN:Should be updated occasionally as this develops, so re-load/refresh & check-back then! ID of last item is version ID.
  2. M87XAJ:All key details are in BOLD with most-essential & -timely first.


  1. MD8RAT:This exists.

    1. MD8RC7:The US Army gives situations (such as after being captured) where the US Army requests & tests that their soldiers lie, appropriately IMHO.
    2. MD8RVR:An example I came up with: “You are shopping in a convenience store and happen to be carrying a knife. Suddenly a robber bursts in in an angry rage pointing a shotgun at the store keeper saying “Do you have a weapon?!” to which the shopkeeper nervously says “Yes” to which the robber shots him dead, and then turns to you, now pointing his gun at you, and asking you the same question. Do you give the same answer?”
  2. MD8RFV:Definition

    1. MD8R9Y:quite difficult for me.
    2. MD8RH8:Without going searching (as here), I’ve never heard of one.
    3. MD8S3V:a possiblity:
      1. MD8S4X:is where more overall wrong will come to the world by the whole truth than by what is said
      2. MD8V67:-seems very on-target.
      3. MD8V5L:-feels vague
    4. MD8SBY:a possiblity
      1. MD8SCT:is where those who would receive the truth don’t deserve it
      2. MD8VAE:feels fairly on target
    5. MD8RIH:a possiblity
      1. MD8ROK:is where both:
        1. MD8RKY:answer is required or more expected than appropriate
        2. MD8RLA:it seems reasonable that the truth/info would be be inappropriately (judged or handled) and that reasonable damage would come from that.
      2. MD8VCU:-feels fairly on target but could be a bit weak.
    6. MD8U7V:a possibility
      1. MD8U8A:is what is defined in romance-terms.
    7. MD8VRK:a possiblity
      1. MD8VS1: Always follow Integrity, what the Army recommends.
      2. MD8VTR:-feels right on target.
      3. MD8VUR:seems too vague for this important case.
    8. MD8YQL:a possiblity:
      1. MD8YR2:a definition I recall I wrote ~2005 in a book-length MS Word document on standards for interpersonal relationships.
    9. MD8VWR:More work TBA.

MCM25E:WHY (plus a bit on how to use it)

  1. MD8QU5: Very important to define as (in semi-random order):
    1. MD8YIA:Important examples exist, so then what’s the pattern?
    2. MD8QX3:there is the widespread spoken & written mis-belief that honesty is always appropriate
      1. MD8YLQ:probably since it’s so hard to define when inappropriate.
    3. MD8R0N:I’ve never heard of a definition.
      1. MD8QXL: probably realizing that all honesty is not appropriate, the US Army lists “Integrity” and not “honesty” as one of the 7 Army values, perhaps including since they give examples of where you are to lie (so appropriate dishonesty) but they still don’t define appropriate dishonesty as best I’ve seen.
    4. MD8R1M:People commonly pretend & lie despite society formally nearly always formally saying this is wrong, so we need to understand what’s causing them nonetheless.
    5. MD8W0J:Without, one can’t can’t well measure & especially score how appropriately honest one is
      1. MD8W0U:Example: what motivated creating this post.


  1. MD8W32:See Who.


  1. MD8VPX:I am unaware of others
  2. MD8VN0: I Destiny am working out this definition for my morality rules and am encouraging others use this or find/create similar.


  1. MD8VIQ: Google Search(appropriate OR moral misleading OR deception OR lying OR dishonesty OR pretending)
    1. MD8VJ1:currently seems to find:
      1. MD8VJW:only a few relevant matches
      2. MD8VK1:nothing else specifically on this general topic, though a few near
  2. MD8SSC:Note misleading/deception is where the recipient of the info expects the info to be true but it’s not, unlike fiction or make-believe or known-pretending where the recipient of the info expects the info to be false & invented.
  3. MD8QJN:More TBA.


  1. MD8Q75:for years, I’ve been thinking about this, including say “Someone should give a sermon on appropriate lying, now that would be interesting!”
  2. MD8Q8Y:A few min ago, in my Google bio, adding (a draft here)

    MD8OMC: Including I’m highly honest & accurate, including I prove it! -as I see it costs me if I don’t. How? For every factual error anyone finds I make, I’ll pay the person $5 if s/he wants –take me up on it! –exclusions: (1) future time estimates as I’m weak there, (2) where pretending/lying would be appropriate, specifically where answer is required or more expected than appropriate but the truth would inappropriately judged.

    and realized I needed to link to this interesting point.

  3. MD8QEE:so now created this post
    1. MA0XOK:How:
      1. MA0Y30:create by doing Copy to a new draft of latest release MD24D2.
      2. MAFH1U:edit to fit, including giving fresh IDs to whole & history items.
  4. MD8YWQ:1st published version, with just plausible definitions, pdt2012.11.09fri1731.