Mar 232015

NLOW5O  “intro & overall”

  1. NQQOMD  “The “terms of use” of {this post & its comments, including the privacy & confidentiality of it plus all knowledge obtained from it} is JotHere’s standard Terms of Use except:
    1. NQQON7   none; feel free to share the URLs to this post.
  2. NLOXDP  113301662: (aside: start of previously post 1 last edited “Apr 1, 2014 9:22 AM”)
  3. “post image” TBA
  4. NLOXDX   “post name history in reverse start-order”
    1. NM1F81  “

      ‘Everyone, including on Meetup, please POST often & properly, especially INSTEAD OF DOING calls & especially messages, including emails & even SMS, wherever posting would be better, other than tweet-like messages just to alert or remind of posts.’

      1. NQQCXN  (at create time) {per NM1F5J, remove unneeded caps, move “wherever ..”, to end, use “tweet-like” phrasing, add missing “or” & “,”, remove “[1 to ~3]”, replace no cut “~”, replace “including” with “especially”},{add “please”,}
    2. NLT9F1    formerly “Everyone, including on Meetupwherever it would improve things, POST Often & Properly, including INSTEAD OF calls & especially messaging (including emails & even SMS) other than a {“tweet”=very short message} to point to, so alert/remind of [1 to ~3] posts.” –{add “including on Meetup, ”},{links to keywords qty: 0 to 5}{put in h2-tag}.
    3. NLPFN3 “Everyone, wherever it would improve things, POST Often & Properly, including INSTEAD OF calls & especially messaging (including emails & even SMS) other than a {“tweet”=very short message} to point to, so alert/remind of 1 to ~3 posts.” –cleaned up phrasing, including reordering to put the promoted 1st and cutting all-caps to about bare minimum.
    4. MXNL2E prior (also original) version to next:
      “EVERYONE, {WHENEVER POSSIBLE|[wherever it would improve things, ]}, KINDLY

      AVOID PRIVATE MESSAGING&TALK (as calls, emails, & even SMS) other than to just direct-to-post
    5. NLT3NX  similar earlier sentiment in a similar article ~2 years earlier.
  5. NLOXG8   This is detailed in this and about 5 other similar articles on this site covering “posting” (to be eventually merged) but seemingly the most urgent stuff especially for Meetup is best covered here.
  6. MXNL75   ‘the direction’

    1. NQPSBN   ‘The top goal’The top goal is handling our information in ways which, in the big picture, significantly (indeed here typically drastically) minimizes work for virtually everyone
      1. NQPTDF   again ‘in the big picture’, meaning often not immediately (though gradually increasingly so as the new methods are perfected & streamlined), but definitely over the long term (so also meaning it takes some vision to see)
      2. NQPSCJ   including via ‘the subtle and often-NOT-automatic but very significant means to minimize the work’, of notably:
        1. NQPSSR   minimize work especially for OTHERS (for our audience) of storing, filing, finding, & sharing
          1. NQPWE1  –stuff which easily & typically gets not tallied & billed in our daily labors, but, most especially in our info age, bit-by-bit subtly adds up to enormous work, else more commonly subtle enormous roadblocks-where-not-done by hurting the next goal.
        2. NQPSE1   maximize…
          1. NQPT6P  transparency
          2. NQPSGQ   fairness
          3. NQPTJU   history keeping & sharing
          4. NQPT8A  democracy
          5. NQPT8L   participation
          6. NQPTP8   community
          7. NQPSGY   finding solutions via collective intelligence
      1. NQPRP9  is doing/creating/putting/sharing (broken down by the ‘doing’ subject then adverb then object):
        1. NQPRQY  every potentially important piece of info, including
          1. NQPUY6   ‘the meta’effectively all info leading-up-to/behind the main info, notably
            1. NQPRS6   the discussion about it
            2. NQPRSM  its latest updates
            3. NQPUZD  its significant history
        2. NQPS3Q   live in (notably best) else promptly archived into
        3. NQPS5H  a good, ideally best, location 
          1. NQPXU8  which, from most important, is:
            1. NQPYSR   respects privacy, specifically keeps others from seeing or/and changing certain info, BUT only where & as much as is truly needed, which is increasingly turning-out-to-be else makeable-to-be very little including commonly a lot less than we so far have thought (notable case)
            2. NQPS6N  easily findable & accessible by all who might need it,
              1. NQPTLU   where ‘all who might need it’ is ideally & increasingly many people, including regularly everyone, due to subtle goals
                1. NQPV9X   A notable example: in a group setting, notably a community group or other organization, due to subtle goals, this ‘everyone’ means typically means findable & accessible by all of:
                  1. NQPVCU  all/most/many group leaders (not just 1 or 2), especially to avoid 1 or more of:
                    1. NQPVQP  a monarchy/dictatorship (including the need for that! -from it being hard to share & sync info)
                    2. NQPVQV  lack of leader sync & consensus, so leaders looking bad, being disillusioned, or/and working-at cross-purposes
                  2. NQPVDU   many group members, again due to the subtle goals
                  3. NQPVGH   readily the general public, as both:
                    1. NQPVWW  it’s generally best for a group be very inclusive (good example)
                    2. NQPW58  non-members, including potential members plus outside review, to some reasonable degree need to be reviewing & evaluating the group, to see it is & is kept good plus take inspiration from it.
              2. NQPUJR  which today typically means an Internet storage location, typically web posting, found by search engines, ideally public web search engines
            3. NQPUKA  supports ‘the meta’, specifically updates & discussion without info (as revision) loss
              1. NQPUW3   notably via discussion forums + wikis + good conventions using them
            4. NQPULZ   has the most logically related info conveniently nearby
              1. NQPUV1  so then also is organized & generally central
          2. NQPQPD   Real-estate reminder phrase ‘Location, Location, Location!’ similarly applies to where to put & build text & other information content …so applies here!
            1. NQPQT8   –an idea which just occurred to me in my writing why a certain location is poor, which gives some example.
            2. NQQ2GJ  As with real estate, Location is both:
              1. NQQ2VU   the biggest simple determiner of long-term success
                1. NQPQ1U   here because it determines the  ‘the subtle and often-NOT-automatic but very significant means to minimize the work’
              2.  NQPQ0G   typically heavily unappreciated including readily least-obvious to many
                1. NQQ2XO  here (with info), probably even more so (than with real estate), as
                  1. NQQ329  it’s dealing with more abstract concepts: information instead of physical property
                  2. NQQ34D the effect is typically {indirect so not immediate}
                    1. NQQ3OL  indeed often doing the best thing long term, will be, until we get up to speed,  notably painful short-term: notable examples NQPXXP & NLQD9W.
      2. NQQ3GW  so
        1. NM1NCG    around the world, this very rightfully seems to be the growing trend & goal
        2. MXO29Q For most anything, you can and should post it, including to originally propose it. So…
          1. N3D0UL  As I do continually, before sending any message or making a call, stop & think “How can I instead do this via post?” and do that (instead post it) whenever that does it better, which is usually the case.
          2. MXO29E If you’ve got something to related to our group, it generally belongs in a post and not a message (other than to (alert/remind) to look at & Reply to the post). Below tells for common types; and if still unsure, ask “Where do I post this?” as we aim to have a place for posting everything.
      3. NQQ39L   but still doing it everywhere is vastly incomplete, as our current & traditional communication methods, including some we just learned & got comfortable with, as email & phone calls, regularly lack all these benefits.
        1. NQPXXP   so compared to current popular communication methods, doing it means for everyone “short-term pain for long-term  HUGE gains”.
      4. NQPY5J   Why?
        1. NQPY7L   Again most generally because of ‘The top goal’, but that can be a bit abstract to see Why, so…
        2. NLQ8QS   Comparing to familiar methods, proper web posting is typically a big net PRO over messaging & calls, as the notable pros thru cons:
          1. NLQD9W   messaging & calling is like crack cocaine –super easy & fun & cheap to start, plus done everywhere, but extremely addictive and very quickly terribly destructive (1st publication of this). In contrast, posting is like eating healthy meals.
          2. MXNN55  Posting is all very much per the founding-cleverness and grass-roots collaborative-spirit of without even knowing each others official names nor contacts, otherwise potential strangers post to plan a community event including readily without any official leaders–as grass-roots as conceivable!
          3. NLQDLK   Posting takes the time to find best long-term locations for matters, including:
            1. NMC3RO   posting can dramatically better give the info big picture than just messaging, including:
              1. NMC3UQ  messaging threads  to be just a stream of updates; posting can do that plus organizes all those updates into a big picture (into posting areas and threads within each).
              2. NMC3NG   posting can generally much better threaded including sub-threads nested to any level, whereas messaging can generally have just 1 thread per topic (standard email) or no threads (as SMS).
            2. NMC34F   posting dramatically increases information’s access control compared to messaging, including:
              1. NMC39M   posted info is typically dramatically more sharable, including:
                1. NMC3AE   with posting, info is not lost in various people’s private (message) Inboxes
                2. NMC3XE   when you want to bring additional people into a problem, with posting you generally just need to assure s/he has access then they can immediately see the big picture, whereas with messaging one has to go thru all one’s messages and figure out what they are missing (often mistakes here, including sending too little & too much & having to edit stuff apart) and then send them that updates blob which also is often very for a newcomer to make sense of after the fact.
                3. NM0JKF Posting especially electronic especially where each post & ideally item within it as an anchor, well achieves allowing reference it and its items especially without copying them, in contrast to messaging and other communication methods.
              2. NMC3BL   notably able to retract access after-the-fact; whereas with messages it’s too late as the content almost always can’t be effectively removed from recipient’s inboxes/storage, just  not send further updates.
              3. NMC3HB   in better systems, ideally with ACLs or similar, increasing & decreasing sharing accessibility finely & instantly.
          4. NMC4PL   Posting is often & increasingly updatable, including 
            1. NLQ8UT   generally one do not need to worry if your content is just an draft/outline, has bugs, and/or is incomplete, so not yet ready for wide or even narrow distribution
              1. NLQ96B   as unlike most all messages and verbal talk, from most significant:
                1. NLQ9BW   posts are typically not immediately announced
                  1. NM1PD7   On Meetup this is true everywhere, indeed the problem is typically posts require additional manual announcement: indeed even after posting, you often still have to point people to it before anyone sees it!
                    1. MXO4DQ   Also most posts on Meetup are NOT widely announced as emailed out unless a group leader does so, say after approving it or wanting to advertise it more.
                  • NLQ986  posts can often be entirely changed after putting it out there (as posting)
                    1. NM1P83   On Meetup, this is possible for all post types except Greets & Event Comments which can only be deleted.
                2. NLQ99L   posts are typically easily amended to (as commented on) afterward, including sometimes with nested/threaded comments
                  1. NM1PH1   On Meetup, this is true everywhere, including with 1-level threading, except that non-members, including not-yet-members, are (incorrectly) not allowed to post nor reply-post on any of a group site.
                3. NM1OWM   in better posting systems as Google Drive, who can access the info is changeable after it has been released, indeed at any time & fully & finely
                  1. NM1P3M   Meetup has limited control here; specifically an entire group site can be marked as private (generally seems a bad idea) and Meetup Discussion boards allow a forum to be set as “Leaders only” or “members only” or “public” and threads can be easily moved between forums.
            2. NLQDFF   Postings can be much better revisioned, especially in better systems as wikis; messages generally can’t have versions, as if the design never considered that need, so significantly correcting just certain parts of what was already sent, or even whole messages, almost always a notable disorganized mess.
          5. NLQDGS  more TBA
          6. NM1H3J   small but routine con/exception: until posting is done well, we often must manually do a tweet-like messages to alert or remind of posts.
          7. NLQDPP   con: regularly today, but gradually turning into a big pro: while posts potentially can be even more private, present posting systems still often lack many levels of privacy
          8. NLQDU8   big short-term but small-long term con: people are still transitioning from messaging to posting
    3. NQQ28E   aside: this sections contents to be moved it its own possibly-existing post on this general topic.
  7. NLOXHU  113301762: (aside: start of previously post 2 last edited “Dec 20, 2013 11:10 PM”
  8. NLQC20    PROPERLY POST: rules including steps, in the order encountered when doing it:

    1.  NQQCOM   Everyone, including on Meetup, please POST often & properly, especially INSTEAD OF DOING calls & especially messages, including emails & even SMS, wherever posting would be betterother than tweet-like messages just to alert or remind of posts.
      1. NQQCZQ   aka the title of this post
      2. NQQD10   For Why, see ‘the direction’,
    2.  NLOXJN 113302402: (aside: start of previously post 3 last edited “Dec 20, 2013 11:28 PM”
      1. NLQFJZ  ASAP RSVP to our upcoming events 
        1. MXNS8P  where if MAYBE, say YES until certain it’s a NO, including since
          1. MXNSVS Assures you’ll get notified of updates
          2. MXNSVX Biggest easiest way for you to build attendance (your YES attracts more)
        2. NLQFKT   especially including your Why & more: see here.
        3. NMEA4G   Aside: per this text, now added this article to category “event RSVP NM1WW4”.
        1. NQQIJ9   some quick reasons Why:
          1. MXNNY2  ‘We’re powered by you!’: SO *YOU* (THE MEMBERS) DIRECT OUR TOPICS, maximally very democratically, via your posts on our event pages!
            1. MXNNY0  Including per our past meeting & now our new agenda[ (latest archive)],
              we are now increasingly having “PRESENTATIONS: small & sweet & regularly many & BY ATTENDEES THEMSELVES, sometimes spontaneous” (quoting that).
          2. MXNNY7 Plus, unlike messaging select people, posting ALLOWS ALL MEMBERS to Reply post, so to
            1. MXO1PY post feedback & experience with that, and
            2. MXO1Q0 have a place to make+keep+SHARE notes on each topic & presentation and other posting
      3. NLQJHS  if you have trouble with something, especially any directive to you, ASAP clearly & respectfully & completely share that with its source
        1. MXNO8E  –as is the standard in most any organization which truly values its participants
        2. MXNO8W  including if you phrase it constructively as is best, then, best of all, post it as this article details.
        3. NLQJTO   note this follows from the italics of the general core directive “We strive to be PARTICIPANTS & A QUALITY TEAM, who seek fairness&ALL-to-win, &who do what’s expected or/and respectfully share their reasons, esp. for our current leaders, & here one could be u!” quoting from latest Q1 on every profile of .
        4. NLOXM2   113305032: (aside: this section was originally previous post 4 last edited “Dec 11, 2013 12:27 PM”)
    4. NLQBMJ   find & use the best posting location
        1. NLQCVB   Why?
          1. NLQCVX   “one thread per topic” is key so everything on that matter is found in one place.
          2. MXNNEH  “one topic per thread” is key including:
            1. NLQD2U   so topics aren’t scattered, again so everything on any matter is found in one place.
            2. NLQCTN  insuring our many readers here aren’t overwhelmed, including so one can Mute or otherwise ignore one thread on details not of interest w/o missing any other material s/he may want or need.
        2. NLSSXZ  Doing this for event comments is the most notable violation case on Meetup and there covers common problems & great solutions.

        3. MXNO8D  To help ensure this, before posting, search for the best good matching existing post then click/add “Reply” on that; and ONLY IF none found, THEN create new top-level post
        4. NLQLGS   aside: “one thread per topic” is essentially “every topic in exactly 1 thread”
          1. MY5AHS  phrasing copied (and, for future, moved) from­ point {MKA77Q  ideally each topic in exactly 1 thread (a top-level event comment)}
      2.  NLQCA2   On, also…
        1. MXNNEJ post & reply-post in the right location from the start: it’s especially key to POST including reply-post IN THE RIGHT LOCATION!
          1. MXNO2R as Meetup very mistakenly does not allow anyone, even top group heads, to move a post even if it’s in the wrong location, nor compose a new post for anyone under his/her name but oneself, nor edit it (for event comments & Greets).
          2. NLSSYE   doing this for event comments is the most notable violation case on Meetup and there goes into details & solutions.
        2. MXO1Q4 For each info type, specifically…
          1. NLQE4B    for each event RSVP, it belongs on the event listing per Meetup’s YES/NO Q there (where Meetup also effectively posts it).
            1. NLQE7Y   See full details at our RSVP policy
            2. NM071Q   in addition to your RSVP YES/NO, its desirable and often required to have a synced PARTCIPATION & REVIEW thread for each potential/actual attendee, ideally started by the attendee.
          2. MXNNYI for each general issue relating to our group topic and/or events’ topic (as each TOPIC or PRESENTATION offering/suggestion, each NEWS OR QUESTION on the topic, or each JOB OFFERED/WANTED) you’d like us to make/do/act-on,
            1. NQO38C   Again here
              1. NQO0U2   when not in-person, all our communication is primarily via posting (per post title) so
                1. NQO2XF  this info from you and your request that it be shared/acted-on should be posted, ideally direct by you.
              2. NQO2YE   ‘we’re powered by you!’, so
                1. NQO1ZJ    here info so posts should come ideally direct from everyone, not just by or via group & event leaders
                  1. NQO3JO   (indeed here we aim for ordinary members doing most of the talking & posting, not leaders)
            2. NQNZLP   Non-members? You first need to join our group
              1. NQNZS0  as…
                1. NQNZMX   For any healthy Meetup group (so including ours), to express virtually ANY interest about/to the group, including non-technical, ideally before even voicing that interest, one should join the group and indeed is expected & required to join (and be a stable member else aiming to become one).
                  As all of:

                  1. NQO00O   This shows the solicitor is not just attempting to take from the group, but also willing to get to know & get at least a little get involved in & contribute to the group, including by increasing our membership count but hopefully not just that.
                  2. NQO4OC   A healthy group is not an isolated one, but rather sees & builds itself as not just technical specialists in its group topic but also comprised of the typically-many people indirectly supporting that topic (as administrative leaders, recruiters, marketers, etc.).
                    1. NQO500  Notable examples are from the US Military, which currently has ‘7 support soldiers to 1 infantryman’ and that’s still not counting all the defense contractors.
                  3. NQNZSI   You will be posting this and Meetup requires every person be a member of a Meetup group before s/he can post in & to the group.
                  4. NQO0B7  Joining a Meetup group is typically easy & fast (typically near-instant after completing one’s group profile), and then right after, one can post one’s announcement, so this requirement is not hard.
              2. NQO0DY   To join our & any Meetup group, simply go to the group’s home page, as (example), and click the “Join” button, then fully answer your group profile Qs.
              3. NQO28D   aside: this section inspired by & factored out of reply Meetup private message point NQO2D5 (so linking to a post (here) than private-messaging more content!) following the post’s title.
            3. NLQNHU    It is key all can see and possibly-benefit-from the responses you get
              1. NQO11X   —including required if the group leaders have not been given you written waiver here, notably by your paying the group to up-front make your announcement.
                1. NQO158   Think of this like Github and similar Internet hosting: if you want their hosting & services for free, your info & much of your activity on it has to be public.
                2. NLQNM6    We realize some posters, especially job posters, sometimes prefer all responses go privately to them but posters need to remember they’re getting the ability to speak and advertise to all our members at no up-front-cost and often never-a-cost, so this is the first way to pay us back for that.
              2. NQO0QV   so
                1. NQO0QA   definitely end your announcement with say “Please first reply on this thread” whenever that is non-obvious (as for jobs offered & wanted)
                2. NQO0RY   where reasonable, avoid putting in other means for responses (as phone #, email, and web forms) –other than to reply-post to your post, either directly on it or/and at some other posting location(s) you post to that all can see what responses you get.
                3. NQO1IP   For any private first replies to your post, please soon reply to your post quoting those replies you got and only redacting as appropriate.
            4. MXO299   also for each announcement that could or should span multiple events (as JOB WANTED OR OFFERED, or IN-DEPTH NEWS OR TOPIC Q, or OTHER DETAILED INFO),
              1. NLQNHL  post it on our Discussion boards, in the appropriate forum for it (as “jobs” if that exists), as always doing OTPT&OTPT; then alert  of your post.
            5. NQO1ST   also for each announcement (‘Q or news or topic or activity or presentation’) to do/make/follow-up-on at one of our events
              1. NQWD3A:Quite appreciated: ideally when a problem or idea occurs to you, did you post an event comment for it, on this happening and/or future ones, for each Q or news or topic or activity or presentation you’d like to give or want done at the happening?’ –quoting the 1st private RSVP Q (et al) NQTXEC.
              2. MIUN5J   propose it & especially post it ASAP, ideally before the event so they can be advertised so bring in more attendees for them and/or for the event; but can & commonly are first brought up during the event
              3. NLQMRX  should include the links to the relevant {entries in our Discussion board and other past/upcoming events} if they exist.
              4. MEQNS3  should be posted in our event (the listing’s comments) where you’d most like it shared and be discussed-else-summarized there per NLQMWC 
              5. MKA7CG   –to find the relevant events and/or discussions to post-on and link-to, see our Home Page for a complete directory.
              6. MY5ANE  aside: this section copied (and, for future, moved) from “MEQNR7   The topics desired & offered:” to here then improved.
          3. MXNO23  For each EVENT you’d like us to do that we aren’t already doing, including to tell of possibly-related events that are happening, as Meetup properly intends, on our Home Page, click “SCHEDULE A MEETUP”
            1. NMEACS   more at “promote & list your event(s)”
          4. MXO4JY  For Meetup member(s) that you want to contact,
            1. NLQNUQ   follow Proper messaging & verbal use (compared to posting)
            2. NLYEKS   is it more than about 4 at a time?
              1. NLYELV   if YES:
                1. NLYEMI   Use Meetup’s “email members” capability
                  1. NLYENG   which is available to all group leaders and only them
                  2. NLYENR   which can specify not all but many common criteria of who to select (such as all who have been active in the last 3 months)
              2. NLYSC0  If NO,
                1. NLYRP0   Do the first solution here which works:
                  1. NLQCHY   post a Greet on his/her member profile with the URLs of whatever you want him/her to see.
                    1. NLYEG0   as, better than messaging, this keeps the message short & public and readily recorded & shared, especially for other group members especially leaders, on the member’s profile.
                      1. NLYEIE   especially important to share with other leaders, of this group & others, when a member does something notably good or bad.
                    2. NLYRRV  limitations
                      1. NLQCJE   On 2014.09~ Meetup HQ terminated & erased all Greets on all members profiles (a notable move backward IMHO)
                        1. NM06Q4  so these instructions need to be redesigned to this article’s post standards: done
                      2. NLYRSY   will not work if the recipient does not have web access in time or
                      3. NLYS75: will not work if the recipient doesn’t check his/her Meetup in time except if one can & does SMS the recipient their Meetup profile URL to check
                      4. NLYRUF   will not work if a detailed discussion is needed (as are mostly 1-way talk)
                  2. NLYQY4   email else SMS else call the person (later if more urgent)
                    1. NLYRX1   requires the person have the phone # and/or email of the person which Meetup won’t reveal and makes generally hard to get
                  3. NQQQSS   use ‘Meetup private messaging’, specifically:
                    1. NLYQMB   use the new Meetup (private) Messages (which does a private web discussion)
                      1. NLYRZB    but it generally requires a manual archive of the conversation be made as Meetup makes & supports no backups
                    2. NLYS1R   use the old Meetup messaging service asking to get emailed copy of each message you send
                      1. NLYS3M    no longer do, as no longer available
        3. NLQEAT   Event listing comments
          1. NLSOMC  are terribly useful and near essential for sharing & syncing on finer event details for the many uses.
          2. NLQMWC   should discuss else summarize, so record, all what happened at the event, plus the prep for it and what came of it after including the reviews of it
            1. NLQN3X  so include/serve-as both the event’s agenda & minutes plus a central place to discuss & record all aspects of the event (except pics which are handled by the event listing’s picture upload).
            2. NLSNWG   via including the details there in the comments if they’re very short or, especially for longer and/or changing details, linking (giving the URL) to them elsewhere, as typically on the Meetup Discussion boards
          3. NMC7UN   are sorted by thread by which thread has the newest comment, newest commented threads come first.
            1. NMC82A   while making it extremely fast to find out what’s new, it also routinely puts overall unimportant things in the top area, seemingly readily not giving a fair review (too low or high or just distracted).
            2. NMC81F  within each thread, the comments are sorted in post order with all hidden-by-default except the first and about the last 2.
          4. NLSO5R  In making every [event listing comment],
            1. NLSS1E  post & reply-post in the right location from the start, including:
              1. NQWC7W:  for certain sensitive content, use a better place.
              2. NLSNHT   Do OTPT&OTPT, including:
                1. NLSNIF   watch out: avoid the extremely common mistake: don’t create a new top-level event comment instead of replying to & on the existing thread for your reply –read that
                  1. NLQB0C  Examples:
                    1. MXNO8J For good example, see Jim’s reply post­
                    2. MXNO8R For mistaken example, see Ben’s 1st 2 posts on that event listing (both at top level when a thread already exists), what led me to make this comment as Ben’s a sharp guy so others might have trouble, too.
                2. MKA7I7   specifically, in every event listing, ensure at most 1 comment thread exists to discuss & record (here quoting the thread titles), from most specific first:
                  1. NLQN6D  each possible attendee’s “PARTICIPATION at & REVIEW of this happening –please put all on that here in this thread”, quoting the phrase used to label each such thread there.
                    1. NQVYAU:  typically called: ‘a possible attendee’s participation & review thread’
                    2. MXO1PW –so post in here if you want to update with why you’re coming or time you’re arriving or/and leaving & why (if not the event times) or your overall review of the event
                      1. NQUK1V: more specifically, this stores what it says, including most urgently your RSVP details (everything besides the YES/NO).
                      2. NQW8HQ:  and sometimes things under this topic, as why you’ll not be there or review, involves sensitive details, and…
                        1. NQWBZ2:  note event comments, especially for upcoming events, are fairly public & announced; so sensitive details which you don’t see how to constructively put here should be communicated by other form –click for details.
                    3. NQUKAN:  titling & labeling
                      1. NEY7QZ   it’s name should be
                        “{[profile URL]
                        [Profile Name]}’S PARTICIPATION & REVIEW Thread for This Happening –please put all on that here in this thread”

                        1. NEYCMJ  Quoting best real examples,

                          BRIAN ZICK}’S PARTICIPATION & REVIEW
                          (of this event happening)… .–please put all on that in the thread here (sub-comments below) or there

                          quoting here, else

                          ANDREW C}’S PARTICIPATION & REVIEW OF THIS EVENT –please put all on that here in this thread

                          quoting here.

                    4. NQVYJY:  section history additional in start-order:
                      1. NQVYKD:  moved in a a lot of content here from /4535#NM2JWE
                  2. NLQN7P  each topic/announcement/Q/presentation
                  3. NLSSC3   “this happening’s WHERE & WHEN discussion & changes  –please put all on that here in this thread” (specification at Where & When, can be 1 thread but increasingly 2)
                  4. NLSSMB   and probably more specific ones, given the comprehensive charter.
                  5. NLSSFD    “{this happening & its listing} OVERALL –please put all on that here in this thread”
                  6. NQVXLH:  section history additional in start-order:
                    1. NQVXLV:  this section’s previous sibling was redudnant {except for its MXO1PW, moved here}, so moved it out to here, quote:
                      1. MXNNE9 so then, for example, for any event,
                          1. MXNTUP and including a link to the thread/page of every time it was given, if that exists
                    2. NQVXZG:  reorganized section from general to most specific first.
                3. NLSS6F   full painful details here
            2. NQVYR5:  more on thread name
              1. NQVYRT:  Ideally every thread should have its 1st line be exclusively its name
                1. NQUKDW:  as shown in the examples for participation threads,
              2. NQVYV4:  (but) often the thread is mis-begun, by accident or rush, with some other text other than the thread name,
                1. NQUKJQ:  as, for a participation thread, `Will be 20 minutes late as I’m hitting a lot of traffic’
                2. NQUKKG:  In this case, as soon as possible, you or someone reply-post to the thread with a comment starting with the line ‘this thread’s name: (the name)’
            3. NQVZ1N:  max characters per Meetup event listing comment
              1. NQVZ0F: feel free use up to the maximum
              2. NQVZ3U:  at time MXNN58, 500 characters
              3. NQVZ39:  for at least the last about 1 year, 1000 characters
            4. MXNN58  it’s easier & better-quality to 1st draft each comment post in a text editor that that can count characters, ideally count any text selection: currently I use:
              1. MXO29I  for very small, an event listing’s main comment box (but typically avoid posting there as that’s top-level)
              2. MXO29J  for bigger, I use LibreOffice Writer, which nicely is also FOSS­ & cross-platform­.
              3. NLSNDP   also covered here.
            5. NLSO8F   also covered  here
          5. MKA7N5  and when you’re ready to absorb it all, see the full details at “ event listing comments: all you need to know but doesn’t tell you”.
    5. NLQ9OO   For most any communication, from most important:
      1. NM348A   ‘Speak up!  Everywhere, welcome & celebrate constructive feedback & discussion’:
        Speak up!  Everywhere, welcome & celebrate constructive feedback & discussion’

        1. NM34C5   especially communications which are {relevant including timely & presented in the matching place} and {as recorded & sharable as can be made constructive}, both which this & most of our policies are here to define.
      2. NLQG9W    The message-conveyed, starting with the author’s intentions for it, must be overall constructive, not destructive, including:
        1. NQUIKH:  keeping it upbeat to the degree true, as further defined at NQTOHT
        2. NQW7Y9:  Positives & especially negatives, ASAP tell to the person(s) mot immediately responsible (here typically event host or other event/group leaders).
        3. NM33QZ   Matters  which are not so constructive to share so publically (typically sensitive matters, but still that should be few given we encourage constructively speaking up), ASAP tell more privately, typically via message,
        4. NMC4U3  More precisely, put positives and most-especially negatives in public view proportionate to how certain & important & clear.
          1. NMC511   This rule inspired & now-derived from failures to do that in terms of “certain” NMAYGK.
          2. NMC8ZI  where “public view”
            1. NMC908   is used here as the approach direction, rather than say “making private”, as
              1. NMCA25   the direction is to avoid secrets, including make things private, as much as constructive, rather than aim for secrets
                1. NMCAB8   –instrumental to achieve transparent management & administration and being open.
                2. NMC9NI   on the big scale, in line with concern & critics too many secrets, as in response to US classified document trends (presently exponentially growing) and WikiLeaks as one cure (for major secrets), but remember prevention is generally a lot better than cure.
            2. NMC56M   “public view” naturally varies considerably according to location.
              1. NMC58G   For Meetup, places where content can be put from most to least public:
                1. NMC593   group name, then rough location as which county
                2. NMC593  upcoming events starting with soonest: their official details (title, date & time range, location, # of people RSVPed YES, description) then event comments from newest first.
                3. NMC5JQ   past events starting with most recent: their official details (title, start date & time (end not shown), location, NOT description as hidden), then event comments from newest first, # of people who “went” (though that often is inflated, so perhaps dismissed somewhat, especially due to high (as 45%) no-shows often not removed), then maybe rating (seems not to be taken too seriously)
                4. NMC5PS   maybe group emails (lots of people ignore/turn-off email from Meetup because its so much)
                5. NMC6R7   group About page (only generally read once at signup, and seemingly often just the first say 1000 characters)
                6. NMC5R9   –here big gap in visibility–
                7. NMC5SH   Discussion Board posts in public forums (the default type).
                  1. NMC5UK   Unlike what many would guess, its seems typically nobody sees content posted here unless they are pointed directly to the thread by another person…
                    1. NMC62I   as could be reasoned by Boards remarkably weak auto post-notification where
                      1. NMC683  the content of the posts is never displayed/sent in updates, just the post title
                      2. NMC68G   as far as email updates to members,
                        1. NMC63Y   members aren’t subscribed to Message Board update emails by default and each new forum must be explicitly added by the user and group leaders can’t see how many & who is subscribed to what
                        2. NMC66E   every day (at midnight) a member receives just 1 generically titled “message board updates” email all the forums a member is subscribed to in all their groups, which is generally missed given all the other much better titled emails Meetup sends and Meetup email is often not seen.
                    2. NMC6GR   -while probably an oversight, this makes public Discussion Boards a great place to put medium-controversial and under-development stuff.
                8. NMC6UJ   Meetup Pages that are public (the default).
                  1. NMC7G2  Seem to be only read when pointed to and have no update notification mechanism.
                  2. NMC7MC   because of the lack of formatting options including location anchors plus low size limit (~25K characters), seems better to use say
                9. NMC72V   –public above this point, private below it—
                10. NMC6QP   Discussion Board posts that are actually somewhat private: notably in…
                  1. NMC6KB   in members-only forums
                    1. NMC6KS   not recommend, as from experience, while sounds good, this tends to create more problems than help, especially given on Meetup most anyone can generally sneak in as a member and often one wants to share group info with certain non-members including perspective members.
                  2. NMC6YK  only leader & select others forums.
                    1. NMC74C   seems would be great for disciplinary & HR issues (well maybe if that were taken seriously on Meetup (!), starting first with not having bug NM6SZI) plus private discussions with outside groups (as venues & performers/speakers)
                    2. NMC6ZF   unfortunately do not exist, so one must use Google Drive or similar.
                  3. NMC6MS   in leader-only forums
                    1. NMC6WC   effective especially for multi-leader info & some discussion on controversial matters, but other solutions may be better due inability to give access to select other persons to discussion
                11.  NMC7BB   Meetup Pages that are member-only then leader-only.
                  1. NMC7CA   since these lack any notification & threading, always seems better to use private Discussion Boards or/and say
      3. NLZBHX    “repetition/repeating: as much as practical, really minimize it and make it obvious (what copied/converted from & to where & how) and automate it”
      4. NMC8V6  for most any writing (posts, messages, & more))
        1. NMELRF   follow proper thread naming especially word the topic well
          1. NLQDZ6    especially on Meetup (where the only thing simple & often possible is plaintext), put at the topic the start of the point and/or have all its keywords in ALL CAPS indeed all words if short.
        2. NMEE8E   use the best structuring option possible for your info and its storage context,
          1. NLT8WB   especially & likely most-commonly Destiny plaintext outline format.
        3. MXO29F For every keyword you use, include besides it a URL for it, ideally a the Wikipedia URL else the maker’s URL, unless it is the group’s main topic or would be found in the dictionary and even then if there might be someone who wouldn’t know it; do not assume everyone knows what you’re referring to AND where to find it.
    6. NLQEZL     after your post, it’s a good idea and sometimes essential to contact the Meetup person(s) needing to see it the URL else they may not see it in time or ever.
      1. NM1LMP  –especially if the person is likely not to see post (including isn’t automatically alerted of it, as is common) plus if you haven’t gotten a reply after reasonable time
      2. MXO4OM  unless maybe for an event comment post (which, ~5 minutes after posting, Meetup emails to every profile responding on that page unless the profile owner turned it off)
        1. NLQKRQ  but still regularly people miss email especially this including from having this turned off, else see it hours later which could be too late, so is often still needed to send a pointing “tweet” message.
      3. NM1LZO  such message should:
        1. NM1L8N   be tweet-like: that or nearly as short plus including pointers ideally URL(s) to the post(s).
          1. NM1LWD   including it should refer to only few posts, as 1 to say at most 4, as any longer instructions then it generally needs to be a post itself.
        2. NM1INB   as short as minimally needed to get to get the reader(s) to look at & operate on the posts especially those it refers to
          1. NM1INZ   it is particular important to here avoid redundancy, specifically only enough to get the reader to read the post by when s/he needs to read it.
            1. NM1IUG   watch out: it’s terribly easy to put too much info, such as saying “the event has moved to ___ per post [URL]” instead of just “the event has moved: see latest details at thread [URL]”, where then the reader doesn’t bother reading the post because the sender mistakenly enabled him to get the PRESENT info from the message, and then he gets messed up & angry at you the sender as he doesn’t then find out the original address and/or time was wrong and/or has changed again, which he would have known had the sender make it so he had to check the post for this info.
        3. NM1KI7   direct & encourage the reader to reply primarily by posting notably there and NOT by replying to inquiry message
          1. NM1KJF   it’s still very useful to get some quick basic status reply, and often it’s faster & typically more familiar to reply to the message (as SMS) rather than reply-post, so you can include questions for just that in the messages
            1. NM1KP5  as “Did you get Meetup’s email _ hours ago of thread [URL] for [date & time, as “tomorrow 6pm”]?  When before then can you reply-post that?”
            2. NM1M7Z  but avoid message-responses which have valuable info as then those too will have to be reposted.
        4. NM1M4H   soon itself be reposted, along with its responses, all quoted, on the relevant discussion threads it refers to, if it and/or its responses, contains any info valuable to others now or eventually (as historical record)
          1. NM1MAY  for this, follow reposting directions
      4. MXNN5C  example real SMS:

        12/10/13 7:01 PM 14 hours ago
        Me: Hey, Jim. Quite looking fwd to ur presentation tomorrow . So how’s it coming? -just Reply post there now with ur status, then Reply post there with ur slides if&when u have them. Thx!

        1. NLZUTH   aside: while needed to understand this example, that URL it gives points to thread which has bee {wrongfully deleted, as Meetup makes common}; the thread referred to can be found on our latest archive of this page at thread “Tentative Presentation: Restful API server..”.
      5. NLQKSG   More examples TBA.
      6. NM1HAJ  such message & verbal alerts to post typically must still be done manually, a lot or entirely, until posting support grows
        1. NM1HDP   that is we’ve got better automatic alerts of posts (as Meetup event comments which auto email out) and we are used to checking for our posts (as checking for our Facebook newsfeed)
    7. NLYESX   Proper messaging & verbal use (compared to posting)
      1. NLYEVA   Foremost, again instead use posting where it can be made overall better.
        1. NLYFWI   including take advantage of the increasing privacy features offered by posting
      2. NQW6Q6:  Messages and non-in-person verbal should  be…
        1. NLYEZK   ideally only the be the minimal stuff which (1 or more):
          1. NLYFG6  can’t readily be posted
            1. NLYFLX  as commonly a person’s private contacts or full/exact/legal identity
          2. NLYFGH    gets the reader to, at the appropriate time, read the post(s) the message refers and reply-post there  –see that
          3. NLYFJZ   is truly better to be handled verbally than in writing
            1. NLYFUC  as very sensitive/personal material especially when first being brought up in hopes quick of resolution then
        2. NLYEXX   so generally short & minimal
      3. NM04UA  Do proper (including minimal) repeating especially for messages
      4. NLQEWM Use a messaging & talk primarily just to direct-to & remind/alert-of  post(s), pointing to where the posts are, ideally the URLs
        1. NM1I7A   as ideally one would never doing private messaging as instead be doing all posting, but posting support is often not yet fully complete, and the primary exception is still needing to alert & remind of posts.
      5. NLYG2W  Wherever needed (which is the norm) and practical, copy else-convert-into-posts verbal talk and messages (including SMS & email) then encourage the discussion be instead moved there as talk-via-posting
        1. NLYG69   ideally by following say JotHere’s standard methods encouraging & converting replies as & to posts (right column).
        2. NQQBEV  But doing such conversation export & convert & move is has its own serious problems
          1. NQQ4L9   specifically it requires a lot extra maintenance & loss we don’t generally have time for, including most notably:
            1. NQQBH3   On a Web 2.0 site (as Meetup & most discussion forms which really feature whomever posting),  the resultant posts (long quotations) look odd and like they instead came (as are really writings of) whomever did the conversion (and indeed we then need to trust that person that they are quoting/reporting right), instead of the parties involved speaking themselves –what every Web 2.0 site about; so it can easily, & seemingly regularly does, have the reverse & quite-negative impact: instead of showing several members participating and a leader helping out with this, it easily look like the leader is domineering including doing all the talking possibly even quoting people w/o their permission or/and fabricating members participating.
            2. NQQ4MH   redaction woes: readily could & does accidentally reveal something someone else doesn’t want revealed (just said it because at the time they weren’t thinking in advanced enough that the matter could/will later need a wider audience), which so becomes its own redaction discussion
            3. NQQBB7   is tricky & error/work prone, as, on the one hand, one wants to do the export & conversion fast to get the word & news out, but on the other hand, if anyone continues to talk on the source conversation then this export & conversion work, including redacting, normally needs to be fully redone.
            4. NQQBGI   formatting is often lost and can be painful & tine-consuming to maintain.
            5. NQQB9K   Roughly doubles labor time, typically group leaders, (typically needlessly): it takes someone, almost always the involved group leader(s), to remember to do this work, and know how to do it, and stop & do it which can double the labor work time!
          2. NQQBFB   So in nearly ever case, it’s vastly easier on everyone long-term, and especially converters (notably group leaders) even short-term, is to instead just put content in the right location to begin with! -just proper post from the start!
    8. NQQ9AM   ‘Meetup private messaging’
      1. NQQ9FA  ‘[‘Meetup private messaging’] starting 2014’: ‘Meetup Messages’ at
        1. NQQE8J   RULE: due unobvious but serious areas of incompleteness (which this evaluation helps explain), long-term it’s overall  mis-leading & does notable bad (much like Meetup overall!),  so use instead better communication means, perhaps most notably Meetup Discussion Board posts, except for few cases where Meetup private messaging exceed that, which are limited to the few PROs mentioned in that eval, so specifically:
          1.  NQQEG5   To direct to & alert/remind of posts when one doesn’t have better contact means as an SMS # else email.
          2. NQQELO   For certain must-be-private talk when one doesn’t have {a better posting system to do that, as (intro) if all parties readily have/get accounts here)
        2. NQQRBI    NQQRBI: ‘Messages’ really isn’t a messaging system despite its name, but rather a web posting system, perhaps in the spirit of Google Wave, but, compared to standard web discussions, is notably incomplete/crippled via its many CONS here listed.
        3. NQQ9GX   vs. Meetup Discussion posts or better: [Meetup private messaging 2014 is] overall worse notably except in limited areas noted here,
          as ‘notable pros thru cons:’

          1. NQQ9P7   PRO: ordinary members tend to especially respond via it
            1. NQQ9QV  Why? — don’t know.
              1.  NQQ9R6   Because they feel it’s private?
              2. NQQ9RL   Because Meetup has created a good GUI for it on their mobile devices?
              3. NQQ9TV   need to ask & research
          2. NQQ9OS    PRO: Excellent message alerting almost as good as SMS
            1. NQQEUV  but also CON as this super as it also makes it way too easy to spam, detailed in a letter to users of it especially here.
          3. NQQAIU   PRO: more privacy options which are rarely but sometimes needed
            1. NQQAKY  as when (from most common)
              1. NQQALD   non-leaders giving info which isn’t safe/best to release to the whole group
                1. NQQAO5   as phone #s, email addresses, home addresses
              2. NQQAP3   non-leaders and leaders having a sensitive problem which indeed shouldn’t be  visible to the whole group or more
          4.  NQQF43   MIXED: ‘weak ability to link to the conversation’, specifically
            1. NQQ5BQ    no ability to link to a particular response/comment/post (as there is no id-attribute in the HTML)
            2. NQQF4T  has no ‘link to this’ button/icon
            3. NQQF9T  CAN link to a conversation including via a link which is the same for all conversation participants, for instance (private so unless you’ve been added it should not display)
              1. NQQFCE   BUT this is not documented so few would guess this.
                1. NQQFI8   but to get the URL is simple enough: just click on desired conversation and then copy the URL from the URL address bar
              2. NQQFGE   which then can allow it to be used for private post discussion
                1. NQQFN3   though
                  1. NQQGQR  ‘has & seems it could still have notably data loss’
                  2. NQQFQ8  people might not think of it as posting (but that overall might be a good thing as then it could remove folks’ needless privacy concerns)
          5.  NQQR7N   Standard for all web posting but PRO compared to email & other “messaging” systems: when a person is added to the conversation, they automatically can then see all prior conversation.
            1. NQQRE2   That’s because NQQRBI.
          6.  NQQ4UD   CON: is mostly only ASCII plaintext so lacks the very helpful formatting of HTML & even BBCode
          7. NQQGRK   CON: does not allow any editing of a post/message after the Send button clicked.
          8. NQQ4XG   medium big CON: the content ‘has & seems it could still have notably data loss’
            1. NQQFVE   in terms of the data not being mis-erased by Meetup HQ
              1. NQQ52I   indeed in 2014.10 when Meetup HQ erased a leading paying community leader & group founder of 10 years entirely-wrongfully (including shockingly undeservedly but permanently with 0 warning and 0 expectation and effectively 0 explanation) (which Meetup HQ can & does do), all several groups’ records of his planning via Meetup private messaging were also wrongfully permanently erased, though Discussion Posts fortunately survived but (as Meetup normally destructively does) they erased who posted them (just from the generic ‘a former member’).
            2. NQQ9X7   in terms of ability to backup the data: appears a little harder to backup conversations (than Meetup Discussion Posts)
              1. NQQACC   but users makingbackups is essential as
                1. NQQAGC  Meetup depends on keeping even their paying organizers from having backup of their sites apparently as part of their near-extortion business model here (~‘bill’s due; so if you don’t get somebody to pay the group’s content within in 2 weeks, we’ll permanently delete it all’)
                2. NQQAGP   Meetup HQ mis-erases.
          9. NQQ4WB   BIG CON: ‘lacks automated archive search’ (to find which thread something is in)
          10. NQQ4TA   HUGE CON: it can only open the conversation to specific Meetup members which are individually listed added to the conversation thread, causing (from increasing bad):
            1. NQQA1E  it’s easy & typical to forget to add everyone (as all leaders at minimum)
            2. NQQ4I7   opening to all but a few people is impractical, so one cannot ever really make the conversation public nor even open to the whole Meetup group
              1. NQQ4JG   well, short of exporting & converting & posting it, which is very costly as that details.
      2. NQQ9FI   [Meetup private messaging] prior to 2014
        1. NQQ9GA   This system is no longer available so it won’t be detailed here unless there turns up to be real need for that.
        2. NQQDPO   This was an email remailer hiding the recipient’s email address, and sending the message entered on the Meetup website as an email message to the recipient along with the sender’s Meetup profile URL plus his/her email address if she allowed it.
          1. NQQDYE   this led a notable problem
            1. NQQE0R   of a very difficult conversation (easy too loose the conversation thread) unless both parties exposed their email addresses to the other.
            2. NQQE37  which is solved the 2014 system but that then introduces other problems including  ‘has & seems it could still have notably data loss’‘lacks automated archive search’, and more.

  9. NQOPM2   Standard messages, especially replies

    1. NQOPN0  NQOPN0
      1. NQOPO8   content:
        1. NQOPOQ   Dear Meetup member soliciting us Meetup group leaders/organizers
          via Meetup private messaging (most common) else via email or calls or other means that’s NOT discussion post,

          1. NQQLR2  Executive summary: Thanks much – but understandably we need you to instead ‘properly post this so we can properly discuss, share, & support it & more’ …and doing that can also big-help all your other solicitations, too!
          2. NQOQY8  On your interest in us, thank you!
            1. NQOPRU   Thank you for your inquiry and your apparent constructive interest in our group as seeing possible synergy.
            2. NQOPXO   And indeed you’ve reached one of the more healthy Meetup groups, including
              1. NQOQ07   We are one of the new and gradually growing Meetup groups which have top standards for community group management & quality, often notably above the norm, by using & following & even helping develop {directions ensuring that, as this post, plus MHMore, and the many other quality guidelines those link to}.
            3. NQOPVC   And so yes we are interested in building more connections with more people & groups & projects as possibly yours.
          3. NQOQZD   But on your method for approaching us…  well, let us help you & us out here…
            and not just for your & our future, but delightfully likely helping most or many of your other connections & solicitations, too.
            Let me share our situation, which is pretty much most Meetup group’s situation; then share with you the solution (posting) we understandably use (so need you to use, too) which also you & many others can notably benefit from, too.

            1. NQOSRP   First, let me share our situation –which seems pretty much the same situation for nearly all Meetup groups– and help you put yourself in our shoes.
              1. NQORW1   As is typical for community groups, especially Meetup groups as ours not sponsored by some business with some angle, our group leaders are effectively always unpaid volunteers.
              2. NQOR18   And we get A LOT of these messaged solicitations seeming like yours –an overwhelming number. Indeed we group leaders get pretty overloaded by solicitation messages we get.
                1.  NQOQ8N   Why do we get so much?
                  1. NQQJLK partially & hopefully because of our group’s extra quality,
                  2. NQQJKE   but definitely because Meetup’s private messaging, like most messaging systems today, makes it WAY too easy to make & send spam…
                2. NQOR8K   And nearly all of these messaged solicitations, including in ways probably yours, too, problematically are…
                  1. NQOQHK  often just (else appear to be) copy-and-paste text (and without any quoting of what is being copied!) as it’s…
                  2. NQORF9   often a message actually being sent to many groups (so actually not to just us) BUT not admitting this (that the offer is being sent to other groups) nor telling all if any of the other groups its being sent to!
                    1. NQORHJ   so readily pretending/mis-leading that the offer is being sent to only us AND not giving us the full picture.
                  3. NQOQK4   usually too long & overwhelming for first pass, with all else most/many of the details in the message…
                    instead of being short like a Tweet with link(s) to posts having the complete details & the further discussion there.

                    1. NQOQM7   indeed these messages usually lack substantial if any URLs to post(s)…
                      1. NQOU9O  of what is being proposed and
                      2. NQOUA7   of to whom all its being proposed to!, and
                      3. NQOUAS  where we group organizers, plus ordinary members where appropriate, can post-discuss & plan your proposal.
                      4. NQOUEE   and in a reasonable location, most ideally in our Meetup group.
                  4. NQPPXP   especially as these messaged solicitations being created in a weak locationthe Meetup private messaging system
                    1. NQQ2BY   as again, ‘Location, Location, Location!’ -worth browsing
                    2. NQPQ52  as location-wise, there are typically killer problems here:
                      1. NQPQ3V   overall compared to Discussion Boards, Meetup private messaging is notably problematic, especially given these your & our goals to out your announcement & suggestion.
                      2. NQQK5C   worst of all, storage here is unfixably private when the goal for your solicitation is something effectively group(s)-wide if not public
                        1. NQQ3Z5 nearly all the time solicitors are asking us an announcement to our group(s), usually directly but also indirectly by pushing some activity or opportunity
                          1. NQQ419   so/and they typically want this info to all the group and to other related groups and generally to the world
                          2. NQQ43K   and properly we’re multi- indeed many leader, so planning this has to get out & coordinated with multiple typically many people (and usually & desirably involves no secrets)
                            1. NQQ4BK  including, per Meetup’s original great foundings & more, we also want to involve ordinary members in as much planning & leadership as possible (and typically never know who will be interested to step up)
                          3. NQPQ5M   so all of the discussion typically should/needs-to be public from the start (best) else easily be converted to pubic
                            1. NQPQDQ  where ‘public’ here means easily findable & discussable by all members (not just organizers), and ideally the world
                        2. NQQ4HA   BUT even the latest Meetup private messaging system has serious really killer problems here, the worst being the obviously most NQQ4TA (info & especially discussion put here can’t well be shared & discussed with the other group leaders and definitely not with the group & related groups). Which means drawbacks including:
                          1. NQQHRY   costly & problematic & disruptive work for us exporting & converting the messages from you & us to where they can be properly shared & discussed (as that link well details), and
                          2. NQQHLQ   one factor you probably care about big: talking to us (and any Meetup group) via messaging means your announcement gets out the group only if & when  some leader is able to stop & deal with it; but by posting as we propose your info gets out the group immediately, plus unabridged & updatable by you!
              3. NQOSOK  so our group leaders…
                1. NQORXE    are readily overloaded by these messaged solicitations,
                  1. NQQKLJ  as they would be for most any quantity sending of a significant message (which is not really just a copy of a post, which the message points to, where, there, they can then share the URL & reply-post discuss it).
                  2. NQORYJ   as the precocious time they can volunteer, they are using, & want to use, & we want all to use,
                    1. NQOS49   doing group topic activities & work,
                    2. NQOS4R   NOT have to do what the solicitor or other message-sender should have done in the first place: find a good place to post & post-discuss their info and instead post it there and just send a link.
                      1. NQOSB5  …so much more easily & effectively discuss & sync with the other leaders on it plus real-time communicate back with you, always keeping everyone in sync
                      2. NQOSBZ as remember as is Meetup norm, we organizers
                        1. NQQMN8   we don’t get paid to do group planning & running,
                        2. NQQMNJ   so especially then, we need to keep good records to able to regularly hand off the matter the many volunteers (as we need many helpers as helpers are unpaid),
                        3. NQQMPA  so especially then, we need do most all group planning remotely via archived & indexed & shared electronic means, notably via post discussion.
                2.   NQOQS3   so[our group leaders] naturally mostly disregard such solicitations, indeed typically entirely,…
                  UNLESS they are sent to us NOT these ways but respectfully… as I’m about to detail:
            2. NQQKP1   so here’s the solution we found & use, solving these problems & many more, which increasingly groups are also adopting: proper posting,
              1. NQQKSR   So just as we do between members & internally, for communicating with at least our groups (and many more would likely appreciate it as well), please communicate & discuss details & plans primarily & as-much-as-practical via proper posting, so then just use other remote communication forms just to point to these posts as needed
                1. NQQI3S   So, for your solicitation & most all group-related info, instead of messaging this or other means, properly post this so we can properly discuss, share, & support it & more.
                  1. NQQI9C  Looking forward to your proper posts in our group, and via reply-posting there, responding to you more.
      2. NQQIWD   based on & inspired by & considerably extending NQNYG8(reply 1 to Aaron, in this thread)

  10. NLOXMM   125001432: (aside: start of previously post 5 last edited “9/10/14 8:45 AM”)

    1. NLQKI2  –this section is notably less essential than the above but still to be eventually integrated into the rest of this article, especially the additional important points it makes.
    2. NBOZ2S Just now I’m replying to another on planning for today’s event, which Mark emails out instead of posting (of course since he sent it out before I had fully-written and told him of this thread), and in it I summarize perhaps the core essentials of my above very long reply pretty well
      NBOZA6 *well enough it makes good sense to instead move that summary here where it is on topic, and instead make that point in that email a link to here.
      NBOZAJ so here’s the summary

      1. Date: [today; exact TBA]
        From: Destiny
        To: Mark
        CC: Farsheed
        Subject: RE: [today’s event planning]
      2. Body: quote(NBNRIT Dear Mark,)
        1. ..
        2. NBODL2 I would take it you don’t yet know, but by our long established posting guideline/rule [also in the 1st post of this thread] taken from years of use in other successful Meetup groups and added & posted on our group in 2013.12 months before you joined our group, this written discussion (currently email thread), as most every group writing, instead is to take place in a proper post
          1. NBOE2C as here, since this for an event, ideally in event comments (broken into the thread), or else a Meetup discussion thread ideally only one for the event for more organizer mostly stuff, and avoiding all emails.
          2. NBOXBW But since here the talk about the group was started in email, correcting emails talk then require moving them to where their content would have been originally started –into posts, which by default all could access –as our group is public even-non-profit community group (so like public servants with public records as much as possible and of course by default -think open-source project where how the internals are done are shown, and list of helpers which is necessarily large (as typically no one is paid) changing and truly unpredictable) and definitely NOT say a private for-profit business (so private readily select clients and internals which are by default private even trade-secrets –think propriety closed-source project, and with a set of helpers which is small, well-known & highly-controlled, and typically-paid)
          3. NBOY5U Specifically by wherever possible making group writings as posting, most especially the start else ASAP, which by default can technically be accessed by anyone (important because the list of who could help if they had access is commonly unknown so impossible to predict including frequently changes -my last point) but which in practice really is only accessed just by helpers present past & future, and so usual privacy worries (where one would feel “I need to have private talk & messaging”) are generally far overrated, as clear far more practical, plus properly respectful as a public & community group, is to grant access to those who might need it, which again is impossible to determine changing list and routinely larger than one imagines (there’s always someone you never guessed who could help).
          4. NBOE4Z But this using posting following our rule, especially when it requires emails to be converted to such posts, has been put stopped, so put on hold, by you (as new Head) and Farsheed’s Monday preference statement to unilaterally (as worded) not to convert emails to posts [with different especially more public access levels] so to where the content would normally go (which others would have probably said too if they didn’t yet see this bigger picture as were deeply aware of this great term rule); so while I very want to see that worked out as possible notably back to our posting standard, until then I will continue this via email.
          5. ..
  11. NLOXPI (aside: end of source postings)
  12. “motivation”
  13.  “success of this”
  14. “author(s) background (on the topic)”

  15. NLOW6J section additional history, in start-time order:

    1. NLOW79 This content I originally posted as thread
      1. NLOWE1  as I 1 of the effectively 2 major co-founders of that group
      2. NLOWEA   and heavily referred to it, for this and other groups I was managing, in every event listing and more, as “more via cmts” in
      3. NLOWJJ   with latest forever archive copy here –wise to Meetup-enabled destruction, I backed it up, and indeed:
      4.  NLOWIO   then just now 2015.03.23Mon17 I discovered that that group’s new leader(s) (Meetup makes it easy to hide which ones but its likely its new head since 2015.08) has silently deleted this my post plus the agenda this references plus all my other postings there, among his/their other even worse erasure of the group’s co-founder –where all destruction fits the pattern of one attempting to erase all existence of those (in this case me) with knowledge of his serious apparent wrongdoings: here my witnessing he apparently stole our group so then me asking him so unknowingly revealing I knew
    2. NLOXB9  so ~1hr ago, as reliable home for this important content, I create from scratch this post then copy the archived content here, just sub-section per post.
      1. NLQ375 from the start, cut this text as it now applies, “N3D0Z9=This content I will move-so-redirect to and merge into…­ as it applies much more than to this group.”
      2. NLQ1ZP   -linking to this point are post start markers from the {previous=original} location and the last archived modification date of that post along with its anchor ID, preserved here especially so prior references to that point (that post) can still be found.
    3. NLOYE5  in title, added “[wherever it would improve things, ]” to be fully accurate
    4. NLOYKY todo: improve formatting some especially convert copied point ids (as “N3D0UL”) into proper HTML id/anchors and cutting unneeded “{..}”: done
    5. NLOYSU add to categories “writing LGYLMM” (esp. due to NLQ9OO) and “post LXYYH2”
    6. NLOZ0X  create category “messaging NLOZ0X” (and add this to)
    7. NLOZ6H  create category “telephone calling NLOZ6H” and add to
    8. NLOZFJ  create category “verbal NLOZFJ” but don’t add to
    9. NLP0C2 create category “emailing NLP0C2” but don’t add to
    10. NLP0SA  Todo: update (as “more via cmts”):  done
      1. NLP0U5 from its original thru present target —which no longer works
      2. NLQQI5   now replace to , also a more motivating location.
    11. NLP0VT publish 1 [v1.1] 2015.03.23MonPst18:53.
    12. NLPEWK  do NLOYKY & NLPFN4 & NLQ375;
    13. NLQ5I7   todo: clean up much of the writing clarity especially organizational problems: done
    14. NLQ5KK  publish 2 [v1.2] 2015.03.24TuePst0924.
    15. NLQ721   NLOXDX: updated to new format of simple history including removing “NLPFLX   history in reverse start-order”
      1. NLQ8HD   doing NLQ5I7: ~4hours of work; cut as no longer needed “MXNN5G with more essentials in my next posts below.”; cut as not directly related: “MY5A8D Additional text copied (and, for future there, moved) from­ to here: [just MKA7N5]”; arranged “start of previously post” to fall nearest their original locations;  NLQQI5; publish 3 [v1.3] 2015.03.24TuePst1702.
    16. NLTYB9 motivated by NLSR9J,
      1. NLSJ5Y did significant improving especially to NLQEAT; add NLT9F1; add to category “rule N0BY8E” as this is mostly rules; add ; add categories “Universal Rules & Guidelines for L2PFGY LR7MKT” and “ bug LSXLEY”
      2. NLTYDG spellcheck; remove “ol class=”fakeOL” type=”1″” and other “fake”; apply N14GIY plus 2 manual fixes it mysteriously not spot; cut 1st point “NLOYC3   status: see section additional history” since universal #M7AUKR; publish again [v1.4] 2015.03.26ThuPst11:49.
    17. NLYDK1   fixing links that mistakenly open in new windows, by cutting “ target=”_blank””: ~34 removed; did NM06Q4; touching that, updated NLQNUQ including the article it links to; spellcheck;  apply N14GIY latest mod (from “( | |&nbsp;)*<sup>(~(<sup)(KENC7Z|KEP2FG|[^0-9A-Z]))*{[0-9A-Z][0-9A-Z][0-9A-Z][0-9A-Z][0-9A-Z][0-9A-Z]}~[0-9A-Z].@</sup>( |&nbsp;|\:)*”); publish again [v1.5] 2015.03.30MonPst0045.
    18. NM1F5J   NM1F5J: Lucy‘s review of this just now; including coming out of that:
      1. NM1MEQ   todo: make positioning to a page location animated so is notably more clear what is happening
    19. NM1L2Z  {contents of NLYFGH: factor out then significantly expanded}, {NLQ8UT: significantly update}; spellcheck; apply same N14GIY latest mod; publish again [v1.6] 2015.03.30MonPst1516.
    20. NMC4Q1   {NLQ8QS content: increased ~45% and better organized},  {NMC4U3: from 0 to about 38 points}
    21. NMELLY   todo: factor out the non-Meetup specific material (considerable) into is own articles (then have this article reference those) –probably ~5hrs of work
    22. NQNZ5D  ‘{post.status.snapshot: date ’20150628Sun0958pst‘; after ID’ minutes 0~‘; revision ’10‘; words ’6235‘; version ’1.7‘; as ’need to add point per NQO28D‘, do ’start editing‘}’.
    23. NQNZC0   do w/ result ‘Post restored to revision from April 6, 2015 @ 17:41:29 [Autosave]’
    24. NQO5X9 ‘{post.status.snapshot: date ’20150628Sun1224pst‘; after ID’ minutes 0~‘; revision ’10‘; words ’6235‘; version ’1.8‘; as ’usable‘, do ’do Update‘}’.
    25. NQPPS1   add NQPPXP, replacing the following (quote) which is inaccurate due to Meetup messaging problems:
      1. NQOQOL   is usually being Meetup messaged to multiple of our organizers, to ensure to provoke  one of us to respond, but then disrespecting of the fact that Meetup messaging is even worse that email here, as it has no way for a message receipt to see who all the message is being sent to nor most importantly allow him/her to CC the other recipients in his/her reply to keep them all in the loop on the matter.
    26. NQQOZR   (in order) much rewrite & extension of  ‘the direction’
    27. NQQC6S  ‘{post.status.snapshot: date ’20150629Mon1635pst‘; after ID’ minutes 1~‘; revision ’12‘; words ’9206‘; version ’1.9‘; as ’while typing got a Chrome ‘He’s dead, Jim!’‘, do ’dup tab, reload, ‘Post restored to revision from June 29, 2015 @ 23:30:45 [Autosave]’, then continue editing‘}’.
    28. NQQNY9   completed last work NQOPN0; added ‘Meetup private messaging’; add NQQBEV; convert post to latest post format; check some key links; remove %20 from hrefs; spellcheck (10s of fixes) & {update IDs to latest format: 498 replacements}
    29. NQQT4V: ‘{post.status.snapshot: date ’20150629Mon2241‘; after ID’ minutes 0~‘; revision ’12‘; words ’10515‘; version2.0‘; as ’quite usably complete including now with NQOPN0 to now be 1st used in reply NQQPYO‘, do ’Update & pause editing‘}’.
    30. NQVWYX:  do/add NQVYKD; add NQVYR5 & NQUIKH & a few others
    31. NQWJPX:  ‘{post.status.snapshot: date ’20150703Fri0103Mon2241‘; after ID’ minutes 0~‘; revision ’13‘; words ’11102‘; version2.1‘; as ’>=500 words added plus need to restart Chrome‘, do ’Update‘}’.